WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:05.040 Hi. This is the Compass Podcast, finding the spiritual in the 2 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:08.820 everyday. We're doing something a little bit different in this episode. 3 00:00:09.280 --> 00:00:13.120 I've just come back from a trip to Virginia. I'm very excited 4 00:00:13.120 --> 00:00:16.905 about because we were exploring some really innovative expressions 5 00:00:17.125 --> 00:00:20.965 of church out there. And I'm looking forward to sharing the stories of those 6 00:00:20.965 --> 00:00:24.564 ministries with you as well as kind of bringing an answer to the question of, 7 00:00:24.564 --> 00:00:27.570 like, what are we talking about when we're talking about 8 00:00:28.770 --> 00:00:32.369 church, with some great stories. I also brought back a case of 9 00:00:32.369 --> 00:00:35.829 COVID. So not a 100%, and then my voice sounds weird. 10 00:00:36.050 --> 00:00:39.890 That's the case. And with that, I've I've not been able to work 11 00:00:39.890 --> 00:00:42.765 up a and with that, I've 12 00:00:44.665 --> 00:00:44.955 I've not been able to work up a episode for this edition of Compass. So 13 00:00:44.955 --> 00:00:48.365 here's what we're gonna do. I'm actually gonna borrow a topic 14 00:00:48.425 --> 00:00:52.185 from my other podcast that I produce called the Micon 15 00:00:52.185 --> 00:00:55.945 podcast. And this is, actually we're borrowing a 16 00:00:55.945 --> 00:00:59.739 full interview. It's with Reverend JJ Warren and it gets into 17 00:00:59.739 --> 00:01:03.180 that question of what are we talking about when we're talking about 18 00:01:03.180 --> 00:01:06.540 church? What makes something church? And in this 19 00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:09.920 episode specifically, we get into talking about 20 00:01:10.380 --> 00:01:14.105 online expressions of church and how we can 21 00:01:14.105 --> 00:01:17.945 live into the call and practice of church, the fully 22 00:01:17.945 --> 00:01:21.545 online community. AJ is somebody that I think a lot 23 00:01:21.545 --> 00:01:24.985 of people should get to know. Very exciting 24 00:01:24.985 --> 00:01:28.630 person, a young leader in the church, the founder of the Young Prophets 25 00:01:28.630 --> 00:01:32.390 Collective. And of course, you can check out more about 26 00:01:32.390 --> 00:01:35.369 JJ Warren at jjwarren.org 27 00:01:36.869 --> 00:01:40.155 or find out more about the Young Prophets community at young 28 00:01:40.395 --> 00:01:43.755 prophets collective.org. So we're gonna get 29 00:01:43.755 --> 00:01:47.195 into where the church is 30 00:01:47.195 --> 00:01:50.715 present in digital spaces on this interview borrowed from the 31 00:01:50.715 --> 00:01:54.540 Mycom podcast, which I encourage you to check out sometime as well 32 00:01:55.020 --> 00:01:57.760 here now on the Compass podcast. 33 00:01:58.700 --> 00:02:02.540 How it goes with your soul today? Thank you. Thank you so much 34 00:02:02.540 --> 00:02:06.220 for having me. It is well with my soul. It is always 35 00:02:06.220 --> 00:02:08.935 good to talk to another United Methodist and, 36 00:02:09.974 --> 00:02:13.575 especially good to do so from here in Vienna. Yeah. 37 00:02:13.575 --> 00:02:17.114 Well, I appreciate you making the commitment to, bridge 38 00:02:17.495 --> 00:02:21.015 the gap of space and time to be with us as we're recording in 39 00:02:21.015 --> 00:02:24.629 Nashville, Tennessee. You may actually be the 1st 40 00:02:24.629 --> 00:02:28.310 Gen z voice that we've had on this podcast. I 41 00:02:28.310 --> 00:02:31.690 I realized that's a little bit of an an indictment. So 42 00:02:32.069 --> 00:02:35.590 and maybe maybe a little more responsibility than you wanted to take 43 00:02:35.590 --> 00:02:39.424 on, but we're gonna ask you to, with a bit 44 00:02:39.424 --> 00:02:41.844 of a wink and a nod, be a voice of a generation. 45 00:02:43.265 --> 00:02:47.105 Is there something that you wish that the older generations, say 46 00:02:47.105 --> 00:02:50.944 my generation, Gen X, understood about your 47 00:02:50.944 --> 00:02:54.250 generation's online presence? That's a great question. 48 00:02:54.550 --> 00:02:58.310 And emphasizing the wink and the nod on this. A 49 00:02:58.310 --> 00:03:01.990 lot of times when I'm visiting churches around the connection, they say, what is the 50 00:03:01.990 --> 00:03:05.675 answer to get young people? Right. And I always have to caveat 51 00:03:05.675 --> 00:03:09.515 that, well, in my experience, and this is not speaking for all young 52 00:03:09.515 --> 00:03:12.975 people, is I I wish 53 00:03:13.115 --> 00:03:16.895 that older generations, and I think this has changed since the pandemic 54 00:03:16.955 --> 00:03:20.790 to a certain degree. But I wish certain older generations 55 00:03:20.790 --> 00:03:24.290 that didn't grow up with social media as an ingrained part of our lives 56 00:03:24.830 --> 00:03:28.670 understood that online spaces, like social 57 00:03:28.670 --> 00:03:32.385 media and virtual churches are real and 58 00:03:32.385 --> 00:03:36.165 authentic communities for many of us. And so sometimes 59 00:03:36.225 --> 00:03:40.005 I think there's this, not a grudge 60 00:03:40.065 --> 00:03:43.365 per se, but this sense that an online 61 00:03:43.665 --> 00:03:47.320 space can't be real and you young people need to get off 62 00:03:47.320 --> 00:03:51.000 your phones, and get outside because that's where the real world 63 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.760 is. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. I had kind of a 64 00:03:54.760 --> 00:03:58.360 watershed moment with my son, who is now 16 years old, 65 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:02.145 and, and he was this was a 66 00:04:02.145 --> 00:04:05.745 number of years ago. He was playing Minecraft, and we were asking him 67 00:04:05.745 --> 00:04:09.585 to to turn it off. We had some place to go. And 68 00:04:09.585 --> 00:04:13.345 so finally, in frustration, I just ran into his room, and I shut the 69 00:04:13.345 --> 00:04:16.860 Xbox off. And it it it elicited an emotional 70 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:20.700 meltdown, not because I took something away from him, 71 00:04:20.700 --> 00:04:23.900 but because as he put it, I didn't get a chance to say goodbye to 72 00:04:23.900 --> 00:04:27.740 my friends. And at that point, I realized that, oh, in the 73 00:04:27.740 --> 00:04:31.215 same way, like, he wants me to leave the church 74 00:04:31.215 --> 00:04:35.055 building right after service is done. And and I wanna hang on 75 00:04:35.055 --> 00:04:38.815 and socialize. Like, this is what he was doing. And in his mind, there 76 00:04:38.815 --> 00:04:42.470 was no difference between that narthex time and this time saying 77 00:04:42.470 --> 00:04:46.169 goodbye in that digital space. This is That is a beautiful parallel. 78 00:04:46.310 --> 00:04:50.070 Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I I have 79 00:04:50.070 --> 00:04:53.289 particularly enjoyed some of the ways that you have platform 80 00:04:53.430 --> 00:04:57.165 discussions around the online expressions of church that 81 00:04:57.165 --> 00:05:00.877 that you've looked at. So, I wanna borrow a question 82 00:05:00.877 --> 00:05:04.590 that you ask of of your readers in in your book 83 00:05:04.590 --> 00:05:08.302 where 2 or 3 are are connected. And that question is 84 00:05:08.302 --> 00:05:12.015 what needs to occur in order for a church to be 85 00:05:12.015 --> 00:05:14.770 a church? That is 86 00:05:15.730 --> 00:05:19.490 I can't say that's a great question since I asked. You asked. Yes. 87 00:05:19.490 --> 00:05:22.450 But it is a great question. That's why we're trying it back out. It's a 88 00:05:22.450 --> 00:05:26.050 convicting question in many ways. Yeah. 89 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:29.585 And, you know, some of this, it's always been 90 00:05:30.125 --> 00:05:33.965 my fascination ever since I was a child with the church and, 91 00:05:35.324 --> 00:05:38.925 playing communion, which, you know, maybe isn't okay, but I 92 00:05:38.925 --> 00:05:42.770 enjoyed it in the backyard and I'd set up with my younger brother. 93 00:05:42.770 --> 00:05:46.310 We would set up little plastic chairs, in the weeds 94 00:05:46.530 --> 00:05:50.290 and that would be our congregation. And, we would have our 95 00:05:50.290 --> 00:05:53.910 mom sit there. She was great. And she sat through our little services 96 00:05:54.465 --> 00:05:58.145 and he would process with a little stick and twine cross and I would go 97 00:05:58.145 --> 00:06:01.925 behind him. And we had our own little church services 98 00:06:01.985 --> 00:06:05.665 together because we just loved creating church. Right? 99 00:06:05.665 --> 00:06:09.445 What? Of course. That's the most fun game for you. Right? 100 00:06:09.450 --> 00:06:12.970 Left lane. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I didn't maybe 101 00:06:12.970 --> 00:06:16.650 necessarily do that. But And so it 102 00:06:16.810 --> 00:06:20.570 this idea of what is the church has has always been something 103 00:06:20.570 --> 00:06:24.090 that's fascinated me. And so I 104 00:06:24.090 --> 00:06:27.715 think as I think about 105 00:06:28.015 --> 00:06:31.775 what does it require to be a church? The pandemic threw us 106 00:06:31.775 --> 00:06:35.375 into asking that question in ways that we should have been 107 00:06:35.375 --> 00:06:39.060 asking all along, but had the privilege of 108 00:06:39.060 --> 00:06:42.900 not having to ask in a lot of communities. Now, of course, there are great 109 00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:46.580 churches out there and Umcom was doing a great job of this, of 110 00:06:46.580 --> 00:06:50.039 saying, well, what what does it mean to be the church? And let's have articles, 111 00:06:50.815 --> 00:06:54.435 about how we do certain parts of our church life online. 112 00:06:54.815 --> 00:06:58.175 What are the best ways that we can facilitate, that? 113 00:06:58.175 --> 00:07:00.115 But I think for me, 114 00:07:02.014 --> 00:07:05.710 being the church online requires and I 115 00:07:05.710 --> 00:07:09.390 talk about this in the book in where 2 or 3 are connected. They say 116 00:07:09.390 --> 00:07:12.830 researchers of digital religions, specifically Meredith Gould and Tim 117 00:07:12.830 --> 00:07:16.670 Hutchings, say that to for an online community to 118 00:07:16.670 --> 00:07:19.810 be a real community for participants, it requires 119 00:07:20.925 --> 00:07:24.625 time, energy, and emotional investment on the part of the participants. 120 00:07:25.245 --> 00:07:29.005 And I think we see that in real life, not real. I try to get 121 00:07:29.005 --> 00:07:32.764 away from that language in physical life as well. That in our 122 00:07:32.764 --> 00:07:36.230 physical lives, our communities for them to be real to us, they 123 00:07:36.230 --> 00:07:39.910 require us to put time into these relationships, to invest our 124 00:07:39.910 --> 00:07:43.670 emotions and, to put our energy into this 125 00:07:43.670 --> 00:07:47.215 community that it's something that matters to us. And so 126 00:07:47.215 --> 00:07:50.975 those those parallel online that we need time, energy, and 127 00:07:50.975 --> 00:07:54.195 emotions so that, you know, layperson 367 128 00:07:54.735 --> 00:07:58.035 isn't just a random person I'm commenting or chatting with, 129 00:07:58.095 --> 00:08:01.900 but that's John in Australia, you know, whose 130 00:08:01.900 --> 00:08:05.580 life story I have come to know and whose daughter is 131 00:08:05.580 --> 00:08:09.419 my, you know, Instagram friend who goes to this coffee shop 132 00:08:09.419 --> 00:08:13.099 that we both happen to know the owner of. And it's those 133 00:08:13.099 --> 00:08:16.844 connections and that time and that energy and those emotions that 134 00:08:16.844 --> 00:08:20.485 make a community real online. Now for a 135 00:08:20.485 --> 00:08:23.925 church, then I'd have to say you have to read where 2 or 3 are 136 00:08:23.925 --> 00:08:27.764 connected because I believe that the four marks of 137 00:08:27.764 --> 00:08:31.460 the church, from our creeds, right, that the church 138 00:08:31.460 --> 00:08:35.220 is 1 holy Catholic and apostolic, that 139 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:38.820 these four marks are important for us, and not 140 00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:42.419 just for me as a nerd, as a theologian here at the University of 141 00:08:42.419 --> 00:08:45.665 Vienna, but for all of us to understand 142 00:08:45.885 --> 00:08:49.245 that when we say we are the church, we are 143 00:08:49.245 --> 00:08:52.925 inheriting 100 of years of tradition that 144 00:08:52.925 --> 00:08:56.445 inform the way in which we understand it, whether we are 145 00:08:56.445 --> 00:09:00.280 continuing certain traditions and even in our protest of 146 00:09:00.280 --> 00:09:03.800 certain traditions, but everything, our embodiment and our 147 00:09:03.800 --> 00:09:07.160 protest, our continuation and protest rather, is 148 00:09:07.160 --> 00:09:10.940 all playing back with and against tradition, 149 00:09:11.105 --> 00:09:14.945 And so understanding those four marks in a digital age is essential for 150 00:09:14.945 --> 00:09:18.485 us to say, yeah. What does it mean for us to be one 151 00:09:18.705 --> 00:09:22.545 online? What technology is the most conducive to oneness? What 152 00:09:22.545 --> 00:09:26.320 does it mean to be apostolic, to be sent in new ways? What 153 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:29.760 does it mean to be sent on Instagram? How do we do that well? How 154 00:09:29.760 --> 00:09:32.900 do we do that ethically? And questions such as that. 155 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.040 Yeah. Well, I wanna tune in a little bit to what you mentioned 156 00:09:37.040 --> 00:09:40.545 about emotional connection that that's one of the aspects of what 157 00:09:40.545 --> 00:09:44.245 creates, I guess, a a relationship or a community, 158 00:09:45.265 --> 00:09:48.625 and as you put it as a church community more 159 00:09:48.625 --> 00:09:51.605 specifically. So for many of us, 160 00:09:52.950 --> 00:09:56.790 we are attracted to online spaces because they offer a sense 161 00:09:56.790 --> 00:10:00.630 of anonymity. And that can be awful sometimes. Right? Because people 162 00:10:00.630 --> 00:10:04.150 will hide behind that anonymity to 163 00:10:04.150 --> 00:10:07.644 say some of the worst inclinations of their hearts. 164 00:10:08.285 --> 00:10:11.644 And that in itself can put up a bit of a 165 00:10:11.644 --> 00:10:14.944 barrier to building emotional connections 166 00:10:15.324 --> 00:10:18.880 in digital spaces. So are there some 167 00:10:18.880 --> 00:10:22.580 ways or some platforms that you have found it 168 00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:26.260 helpful in creating an emotional bond 169 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.700 or connection with people in digital spaces? 170 00:10:31.175 --> 00:10:34.395 Yeah. And I I think that's a fascinating point that 171 00:10:35.655 --> 00:10:39.495 on the one hand, there's this idea of, I think maybe in the, you 172 00:10:39.495 --> 00:10:43.335 know, early 2000 nineties, if I can remember way back then when I was 173 00:10:43.335 --> 00:10:44.955 even younger than I am now, 174 00:10:46.910 --> 00:10:50.529 There's this idea that, communicating online 175 00:10:50.589 --> 00:10:54.350 is totally anonymous. Right? I remember when a chat room, was 176 00:10:54.350 --> 00:10:57.709 first starting and my sisters would be using chat rooms and messaging with 177 00:10:57.709 --> 00:11:01.505 people that I can't remember if they knew or not. And to a certain 178 00:11:01.505 --> 00:11:05.265 degree Oh my god. Right. And to a certain degree, I 179 00:11:05.425 --> 00:11:09.205 that still happens. But I think with 180 00:11:09.265 --> 00:11:12.785 not only the amount of data that all of these websites are tracking, they know 181 00:11:12.785 --> 00:11:16.470 who we are, but also for me, social media platforms. 182 00:11:16.770 --> 00:11:20.610 And for I would, guess a 183 00:11:20.610 --> 00:11:23.910 lot of gen zers social media platforms are intimately 184 00:11:24.130 --> 00:11:27.825 personal. They're necessarily personal because it's, that is 185 00:11:28.045 --> 00:11:31.805 an extension, of ourselves. And that is part 186 00:11:31.805 --> 00:11:35.325 of the, realm in which we live, that it is not 187 00:11:35.325 --> 00:11:38.765 discontinuous with our offline life. And Deanna 188 00:11:38.765 --> 00:11:42.279 Thompson talks about this in her book, virtual body of 189 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:45.880 Christ from Abingdon Press that the in many ways, 190 00:11:45.880 --> 00:11:49.399 online spaces can be more incarnational, may allow us to 191 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:51.899 encounter each other's humanity more deeply 192 00:11:53.275 --> 00:11:56.955 because they allow us to share parts of our stories that, you know, 193 00:11:56.955 --> 00:12:00.715 maybe we wouldn't feel as comfortable sharing if you and I were sitting down at 194 00:12:00.715 --> 00:12:04.415 a coffee shop surrounded by people right now, that we have some 195 00:12:04.555 --> 00:12:08.260 intimacy in this space that allows us, to 196 00:12:08.260 --> 00:12:11.160 communicate more deeply. Sometimes that anonymity, 197 00:12:12.740 --> 00:12:16.420 in a different sense, sometimes anonymity allows people to go deeper 198 00:12:16.420 --> 00:12:20.260 more quickly. So in a lot of the couple virtual churches that exist out 199 00:12:20.260 --> 00:12:23.915 there, they some some of their, 200 00:12:24.235 --> 00:12:27.835 testimonies have been that if folks participate without 201 00:12:27.835 --> 00:12:31.615 using their real name, or their image, that 202 00:12:31.675 --> 00:12:35.115 sometimes they feel more comfortable sharing more about 203 00:12:35.115 --> 00:12:38.490 themselves more quickly because they have that safety of being 204 00:12:38.490 --> 00:12:42.170 anonymous. That isn't necessarily my experience because I 205 00:12:42.170 --> 00:12:45.930 don't use platforms anonymously. And most of the church, that I 206 00:12:45.930 --> 00:12:48.830 work with in our virtual church, church of the young prophets, 207 00:12:49.370 --> 00:12:52.815 is is using and inviting 208 00:12:52.875 --> 00:12:56.475 people's personalities themselves from social 209 00:12:56.475 --> 00:13:00.315 media, and to gather us together in a virtual space. And I'm not sure 210 00:13:00.315 --> 00:13:02.955 if this is the right time to talk about that or a little bit later 211 00:13:02.955 --> 00:13:06.760 on. You let me know. Yeah. Well, you can if you had more 212 00:13:06.760 --> 00:13:09.820 to add there, we can complete that thought, and then we'll get into the practicalities 213 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.880 of, the Young Prophets collective. Yeah. So 214 00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:17.640 I I think that your your question about platforms that 215 00:13:17.640 --> 00:13:21.475 are conducive to fostering relationships, 216 00:13:22.175 --> 00:13:25.555 in a way where we often think of being online as being anonymous. 217 00:13:26.015 --> 00:13:29.635 I think that question is really key to 218 00:13:30.175 --> 00:13:34.015 the question of is online church really church, 219 00:13:34.015 --> 00:13:37.589 or can online communities be real church 220 00:13:37.589 --> 00:13:41.209 communities? And I think that question that you asked 221 00:13:42.149 --> 00:13:45.670 is the better question. Is what 222 00:13:45.670 --> 00:13:48.970 about the ways in which we're gathering online 223 00:13:49.875 --> 00:13:53.555 are conducive to fostering authentic relationships, not can 224 00:13:53.555 --> 00:13:57.395 technology do it. Because during the pandemic, almost all of us 225 00:13:57.395 --> 00:14:00.755 were forced online. So we did experience having church 226 00:14:00.755 --> 00:14:04.595 online. So I think that that first question is it's out the window for 227 00:14:04.595 --> 00:14:08.180 me taken for granted, the answer is yes. So the 228 00:14:08.180 --> 00:14:11.699 second and more interesting question is, yeah, which 229 00:14:11.699 --> 00:14:15.380 platforms allow us to engage more authentically? And I 230 00:14:15.380 --> 00:14:18.954 think that that that requires more two way 231 00:14:18.954 --> 00:14:22.635 communication, so platforms like Zoom as opposed to a simple 232 00:14:22.635 --> 00:14:26.394 live stream that's only one directional. If you're using a 233 00:14:26.394 --> 00:14:30.014 one directional platform, you know, utilizing the chat and whatnot, 234 00:14:30.154 --> 00:14:33.730 but finding platforms that allow for more communication 235 00:14:34.110 --> 00:14:37.790 both ways and aren't just, one directional, will be 236 00:14:37.790 --> 00:14:41.329 key for us to creating authentic communities and 237 00:14:41.389 --> 00:14:45.069 real churches. Well, Church of the Young Prophets, 238 00:14:45.069 --> 00:14:48.875 this organization that you've started in in conjunction with 239 00:14:48.875 --> 00:14:52.175 the Young Prophets Collective is an online 240 00:14:52.475 --> 00:14:55.695 church. As you were founding that, were there certain 241 00:14:56.074 --> 00:14:59.710 aspects that or I don't know. Did we can 242 00:14:59.710 --> 00:15:03.390 think programmatically, like, programs that you felt like it 243 00:15:03.390 --> 00:15:07.150 was necessary for us to identify how we're gonna do 244 00:15:07.150 --> 00:15:10.590 this in order for us to be a church? And you you 245 00:15:10.590 --> 00:15:14.435 mentioned 2 two parts of it. So on the one hand, Young 246 00:15:14.435 --> 00:15:18.275 Profits Collective is a 501c3 nonprofit that I founded in 247 00:15:18.275 --> 00:15:21.015 the aftermath of general conference 2019. 248 00:15:22.035 --> 00:15:25.415 For those of you that are watching the visual here, you'll see the pink blazer, 249 00:15:26.035 --> 00:15:29.730 and that became my beacon of during that general 250 00:15:29.730 --> 00:15:33.090 conference sharing a few words of my story, and that 251 00:15:33.090 --> 00:15:36.930 resonating with a lot of young people around the connection. And from 252 00:15:36.930 --> 00:15:40.630 that space, realizing that even when our church 253 00:15:40.690 --> 00:15:44.535 is making decisions that exclude a lot of people, there are still a lot of 254 00:15:44.535 --> 00:15:48.075 people in the church, especially young people who say 255 00:15:48.375 --> 00:15:51.755 we're still here. We we still have something to contribute. 256 00:15:52.615 --> 00:15:56.455 And so to me, that's the prophetic voice that says we 257 00:15:56.455 --> 00:16:00.269 know something's not right here. We're not going to leave though. We still 258 00:16:00.269 --> 00:16:04.029 have something to say. We feel God is calling us to prophesy love into 259 00:16:04.029 --> 00:16:07.709 this context, of division. And so that's where 260 00:16:07.709 --> 00:16:11.470 Young Prophets Collective started and that was before the pandemic and we were 261 00:16:11.470 --> 00:16:15.135 always online simply because we were young United 262 00:16:15.135 --> 00:16:18.895 Methodists around the world. So we had no other option. And so we'd 263 00:16:18.895 --> 00:16:22.595 meet on Zoom. We met over Slack for notifications 264 00:16:22.895 --> 00:16:26.415 for, you know, talking about different topics and 265 00:16:26.415 --> 00:16:29.620 education. And slowly that evolved, 266 00:16:30.319 --> 00:16:34.160 into a worshiping community, which is now supported by the New England 267 00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:37.139 Conference of the United Methodist Church, Church of the Young Prophets. 268 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:41.835 Yeah. When you were starting that Young Prophets collective, 269 00:16:42.135 --> 00:16:45.895 did you envision that you were gonna move into it being a 270 00:16:45.895 --> 00:16:49.735 worshiping community, or did you have any initial alright. There was 271 00:16:49.735 --> 00:16:53.575 no vision for that. Okay. Not at all. At first, we were just 272 00:16:53.575 --> 00:16:56.990 a hodgepodge group of young people from around the world, 273 00:16:57.290 --> 00:17:00.730 who said we how how do we help churches in this time? How do we 274 00:17:00.730 --> 00:17:04.250 show that young people have a voice in the church? How do we help 275 00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:07.929 shape, the future of the denomination? Because we're not 276 00:17:07.929 --> 00:17:11.654 only the church of tomorrow, we are the church of today. And even, you know, 277 00:17:11.654 --> 00:17:15.335 as a young person who was at general conference, a lot of the 278 00:17:15.335 --> 00:17:18.855 conversations about the future of the denomination didn't include young 279 00:17:18.855 --> 00:17:22.554 people. And so it was important for me for that to happen. 280 00:17:22.694 --> 00:17:25.115 But then in the process of writing this book, 281 00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:30.290 and to do that, I interviewed United Methodist pastors around the world. 282 00:17:30.430 --> 00:17:34.030 So United Methodist pastors in Kenya, in, 283 00:17:34.350 --> 00:17:37.550 the Philippines, in Singapore, in, 284 00:17:37.870 --> 00:17:41.010 across Europe and the United States to ask them 285 00:17:41.470 --> 00:17:45.205 how how their understanding of church had changed because 286 00:17:45.205 --> 00:17:48.965 of the pandemic. And through those interviews, through the 287 00:17:48.965 --> 00:17:52.325 wisdom that they shared, and that I got to collect for this 288 00:17:52.325 --> 00:17:55.850 book, that gave me the feeling of, ah, okay. 289 00:17:55.850 --> 00:17:59.530 Something something feels right here. This 290 00:17:59.530 --> 00:18:03.210 this feels like the groundwork of perhaps a next 291 00:18:03.210 --> 00:18:06.890 ministry for Young Prophets Collective is to say, yeah. How can we 292 00:18:06.890 --> 00:18:10.125 use these insights that everyone has shared with us, 293 00:18:10.765 --> 00:18:14.225 to create a space where folks feel welcome, feel affirmed, 294 00:18:14.685 --> 00:18:18.285 and feel like they have a church that's accessible to them. In conducting 295 00:18:18.285 --> 00:18:22.045 those interviews, what were some discoveries you 296 00:18:22.045 --> 00:18:25.700 made that were really surprising to you? Or was there one in 297 00:18:25.700 --> 00:18:29.320 particular that stuck out that you were like, I did not anticipate 298 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:34.440 that being the reality? Yeah. 299 00:18:35.540 --> 00:18:38.280 If I think I was most most fascinated 300 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:42.705 by, the district superintendent 301 00:18:42.925 --> 00:18:46.765 I spoke with in the Philippines, because she 302 00:18:46.765 --> 00:18:50.465 was telling me about how a lot of the cultural practices, 303 00:18:50.925 --> 00:18:54.445 like blessing of a house or a car, were moving 304 00:18:54.445 --> 00:18:58.240 online. And so if someone was, getting 305 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:02.080 a new house during the pandemic or, a new car, they would 306 00:19:02.080 --> 00:19:05.840 still they made sure to have an online service so that they 307 00:19:05.840 --> 00:19:09.279 could bless that car, or that house. And 308 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.995 that in her experience, she said, and I 309 00:19:12.995 --> 00:19:16.695 share this in one of the chapters, that it it made the church 310 00:19:16.755 --> 00:19:20.295 more contextual and more personal for the members. 311 00:19:20.595 --> 00:19:24.140 That they felt like it wasn't just a place and a 312 00:19:24.140 --> 00:19:27.900 community that existed at one time in one place. But 313 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:31.500 now the church, you know, it's happening in their homes as they're 314 00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:35.039 watching the live stream or in the Zoom meeting. And it's 315 00:19:35.195 --> 00:19:38.635 it's not only being in worship, but it's also blessing the 316 00:19:38.635 --> 00:19:41.995 car together with more people, in their home 317 00:19:41.995 --> 00:19:45.755 and involved, so many different ways that 318 00:19:45.755 --> 00:19:49.559 brought them deeper into the community to provide meals 319 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:53.240 in ways that they weren't doing before, to provide for their neighbors who weren't part 320 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.780 of their worshiping community. So I think that was really interesting to me. 321 00:19:57.080 --> 00:20:00.840 Okay. We're talking with JJ Warren, author of Where 2 or 322 00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:04.595 3 are Connected on the Mycom podcast. JJ, 323 00:20:04.975 --> 00:20:08.735 again, going back to this, collective that that you've helped 324 00:20:08.735 --> 00:20:12.415 give life to, the the Young Prophets Collective and specifically the 325 00:20:12.415 --> 00:20:16.255 the Church of Young Prophets. What 326 00:20:16.255 --> 00:20:19.820 inspired you to make the turn or 327 00:20:19.820 --> 00:20:23.580 make the addition of a worshiping community to this 328 00:20:23.580 --> 00:20:27.180 group that sounded like it was it was pulled together just as a, like a 329 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:30.940 meeting place for people who shared a common interest 330 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:34.725 and common passion. How did that give rise then to 331 00:20:34.725 --> 00:20:38.565 this need of wanting to or this need 332 00:20:38.565 --> 00:20:42.325 of becoming a a worshiping community, something 333 00:20:42.325 --> 00:20:44.345 that we might identify as church? 334 00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:50.120 Yeah. And as I as I was thinking about this, 335 00:20:51.060 --> 00:20:54.820 really, it and I I hate to be self promotional, but it comes back 336 00:20:54.820 --> 00:20:58.500 to the title of my first book, Reclaiming Church with the United Methodist Publishing 337 00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:01.915 House. I've been impressed. And seeing you 338 00:21:01.915 --> 00:21:05.515 know, I had no idea that that really was, as we've 339 00:21:05.515 --> 00:21:08.955 already talked about, the idea of church has fascinated 340 00:21:08.955 --> 00:21:12.415 me, ever since I was a child. And so reclaiming 341 00:21:12.475 --> 00:21:15.915 church and what it means to be church, has 342 00:21:15.915 --> 00:21:19.450 been the path, that's brought me to where I am 343 00:21:19.450 --> 00:21:22.890 and the way in which I understand my ministry now as a 344 00:21:22.890 --> 00:21:26.490 provisional elder in the United Methodist Church is we 345 00:21:26.490 --> 00:21:30.115 are reclaiming, meaning to take the power 346 00:21:30.115 --> 00:21:33.955 away. This is the prophetic edge here, to take the power away from folks 347 00:21:33.955 --> 00:21:37.335 who use the church to harm. So, you know, Methodists 348 00:21:37.635 --> 00:21:41.315 reclaim the term Methodist. Methodist was a slur. Right? It was 349 00:21:41.315 --> 00:21:44.899 something that was used against us, as well as bible moths. I'm 350 00:21:44.899 --> 00:21:48.659 glad bible moths isn't the one that we reclaimed. Right? That 351 00:21:48.659 --> 00:21:52.120 doesn't go so well on a t shirt or a logo. Yeah. 352 00:21:52.340 --> 00:21:56.179 So to reclaim, to take the power away from those who use the church to 353 00:21:56.179 --> 00:21:59.940 harm and then to find something inherently affirming and 354 00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:03.755 liberating in the idea of church itself. That, hey. Wait a 355 00:22:03.755 --> 00:22:07.355 second. Church ought to be a community that as Jesus said 356 00:22:07.355 --> 00:22:10.715 is defined by our radical love for one 357 00:22:10.715 --> 00:22:14.415 another. And so Church of the Young Prophets grew 358 00:22:14.475 --> 00:22:17.640 as I recognize that a lot of young people, 359 00:22:19.300 --> 00:22:23.080 are turned off by the church, you know, don't are not religious 360 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:27.060 because of so much harm, that has been done in the 361 00:22:27.060 --> 00:22:30.855 name of the church. And so even entering a physical church 362 00:22:31.154 --> 00:22:34.674 is a barrier, not only physically for persons with physical 363 00:22:34.674 --> 00:22:38.375 disabilities, but also emotionally and spiritually 364 00:22:38.434 --> 00:22:41.575 for folks who have had those bad experiences with the church. 365 00:22:41.840 --> 00:22:45.440 So creating a space that sort of 366 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.900 eased and lowered that tension as much as possible 367 00:22:49.280 --> 00:22:52.800 to say, okay. You don't have to step foot in that building that 368 00:22:52.800 --> 00:22:56.500 is physically and viscerally triggering for you or inaccessible. 369 00:22:57.385 --> 00:23:00.905 You can come to a place where you have more 370 00:23:00.905 --> 00:23:04.745 agency. So you have the opportunity at Church of the Young 371 00:23:04.745 --> 00:23:08.525 Prophets. We meet in a platform called Gather that I'll show you in a bit. 372 00:23:08.585 --> 00:23:12.390 But in this space, you have the opportunity to decide, will I turn 373 00:23:12.390 --> 00:23:15.830 my camera on or not? And that's totally okay to 374 00:23:15.830 --> 00:23:19.430 not. Will I turn my microphone on or not? And it's totally 375 00:23:19.430 --> 00:23:23.265 okay to not. Will I chat in the chat? Will I 376 00:23:23.405 --> 00:23:26.845 move my avatar close to other people, or will I stay on my 377 00:23:26.845 --> 00:23:29.745 own? There's a lot more agency for the individual 378 00:23:30.605 --> 00:23:34.285 intentionally to relieve that stress and that 379 00:23:34.285 --> 00:23:37.825 pressure and that anxiety that oftentimes comes with, 380 00:23:38.080 --> 00:23:41.540 okay. You know, even when I go home to visit my mom in Nashville, 381 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.600 am I gonna go to this physical church, where I'm locked in 382 00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:49.280 then for that good hour or more, next to folks? And 383 00:23:49.280 --> 00:23:52.905 I'm I'm I I feel like I can't leave, and I 384 00:23:52.905 --> 00:23:56.605 have less agency in this space, which for me as a gen zer, 385 00:23:57.145 --> 00:24:00.985 you know, and as a queer person and a pastor is just not as 386 00:24:00.985 --> 00:24:04.670 safe for me. Whereas here, it says, okay. If 387 00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:08.350 I'm uncomfortable, if someone says something harmful, or if I 388 00:24:08.350 --> 00:24:12.190 simply need a moment alone, I can close the tab. I can 389 00:24:12.190 --> 00:24:15.630 turn off my video. I can leave, and it's 390 00:24:15.630 --> 00:24:19.465 okay. Well, let's get into that digital space a little bit 391 00:24:19.465 --> 00:24:23.085 because I think one of the barriers that we face in 392 00:24:23.225 --> 00:24:27.065 trying to transition our existence of 393 00:24:27.065 --> 00:24:30.765 the church community into a digital space is how we facilitate 394 00:24:31.639 --> 00:24:35.480 a sense of proximity to one another. And I I think that you've come 395 00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:39.320 up with some ways of beginning to to 396 00:24:39.320 --> 00:24:43.159 bridge that together. So let's take a look at what 397 00:24:43.159 --> 00:24:46.605 that looks like in in your context with, 398 00:24:47.005 --> 00:24:50.765 Church of the Young Prophets, if we can. Yeah. And I I love how you 399 00:24:50.765 --> 00:24:54.205 said proximity, and you can see Church of the Young Prophets now. 400 00:24:54.205 --> 00:24:57.885 Right? Mhmm. I can't. Okay. For the folks 401 00:24:57.885 --> 00:25:01.265 listening, you are now in my virtual office. 402 00:25:01.725 --> 00:25:05.380 It is a cartoon kind of style. Our 403 00:25:05.380 --> 00:25:09.140 folks say it's somewhere between Pokemon go 404 00:25:09.140 --> 00:25:12.899 and or Pokemon style and sims, that sort 405 00:25:12.899 --> 00:25:16.664 of vibe. And this is 406 00:25:16.664 --> 00:25:20.505 my virtual office here in Church of the Young Prophets. And what I 407 00:25:20.505 --> 00:25:24.265 love about the way that you frame the question is you said 408 00:25:24.265 --> 00:25:28.080 proximity. And to me, that's that's essential. This 409 00:25:28.320 --> 00:25:32.000 feeling that we are somehow, though we are in different 410 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.679 places and this comes back to the church's oneness, that 411 00:25:35.679 --> 00:25:39.440 somehow we are in the same place. Somehow we are 412 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:43.285 next to one another. So this is my little office where 413 00:25:43.285 --> 00:25:47.125 folks come in throughout the week, and it offers 414 00:25:47.125 --> 00:25:50.885 this privacy. So, I can still have 1 on 1 meetings 415 00:25:50.885 --> 00:25:54.424 and pastoral care with folks just like I would in a physical church. 416 00:25:55.020 --> 00:25:58.780 And I feel like that's important to note out that you can actually like, 417 00:25:58.780 --> 00:26:01.200 one of the the barriers in some, 418 00:26:02.860 --> 00:26:06.700 virtual meeting spaces is that they are completely open air. Right? 419 00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:10.375 And so within this space, you're able to say, okay. We can pull 420 00:26:10.375 --> 00:26:13.595 people aside and have a more intimate, 421 00:26:14.455 --> 00:26:18.294 conversation in that space. That's very cool. Yes. Exactly. And 422 00:26:18.294 --> 00:26:20.855 that's that's what I love about Gather Town, 423 00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:25.649 over a platform like Zoom, for instance. And I don't get 424 00:26:25.649 --> 00:26:28.470 commissions from Gather Town here. I just love the platform. 425 00:26:29.490 --> 00:26:33.169 Is that it provides intimacy. So you'll notice when I step into 426 00:26:33.605 --> 00:26:37.285 I'm stepping into a little, seating area at 427 00:26:37.285 --> 00:26:40.805 our lobby, and so anyone who, joins 428 00:26:40.805 --> 00:26:44.485 into our church here, our church campus, and the 429 00:26:44.485 --> 00:26:47.385 link is available on our website, young prophets collective.org, 430 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.910 You'll find yourself here in our lobby and when you step into 431 00:26:51.910 --> 00:26:55.750 an area like the seating area, the rest of the screen gets dark and 432 00:26:55.750 --> 00:26:59.430 it highlights only this area. That acts as a 433 00:26:59.430 --> 00:27:02.995 private space so that you only see and hear and can 434 00:27:02.995 --> 00:27:06.775 communicate with the folks who are also in your private area. 435 00:27:06.915 --> 00:27:10.515 Much like in a physical space, how we can go off into a corner and 436 00:27:10.515 --> 00:27:13.750 talk and the folks on the other side of the room, you know, don't hear 437 00:27:13.750 --> 00:27:17.110 what we're talking about so that we can have that intimacy that's 438 00:27:17.110 --> 00:27:20.870 required for a community, where multiple people are in 439 00:27:20.870 --> 00:27:24.550 the same place at the same time. I always hated logging 440 00:27:24.550 --> 00:27:28.055 into a Zoom webinar, and seeing just all those 441 00:27:28.055 --> 00:27:31.575 faces, you know, maybe 50 folks. And how do you there's no 442 00:27:31.575 --> 00:27:35.415 way to do small talk well with 50 people staring at each 443 00:27:35.415 --> 00:27:39.015 other. Yeah. Or even to in some cases, I find myself 444 00:27:39.015 --> 00:27:42.690 holding back on a question because it's a question that's relevant simply 445 00:27:42.690 --> 00:27:46.370 for me and not to the entire group. So this 446 00:27:46.370 --> 00:27:49.809 offers the opportunity to to, I guess, in a sense, 447 00:27:49.809 --> 00:27:53.429 not involve, invite, or, 448 00:27:53.890 --> 00:27:57.585 or waste other people's time getting an answer to a 449 00:27:57.585 --> 00:28:01.285 question that may not specifically be relevant to them. Yeah. 450 00:28:01.505 --> 00:28:05.345 Yes. Exactly. And this what I also love is that 451 00:28:05.345 --> 00:28:09.179 we've, reclaimed a lot of as I said, 452 00:28:09.179 --> 00:28:12.700 I'm a nerd, and so we've reclaimed a lot of historic Christian 453 00:28:12.700 --> 00:28:16.139 traditions and repurposed that. Yeah. Yes. For an 454 00:28:16.139 --> 00:28:19.679 online space and which for folks with physical disabilities 455 00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:23.675 for whom a labyrinth maybe isn't accessible, now you can 456 00:28:23.675 --> 00:28:27.435 do prayer labyrinths here at Church of the Own Prophets. So we 457 00:28:27.435 --> 00:28:31.055 have different, quotes and links 458 00:28:31.115 --> 00:28:34.795 and scriptures linked into each candle, and you can walk 459 00:28:34.795 --> 00:28:38.350 the labyrinth and you press x here, and it's an 460 00:28:38.350 --> 00:28:41.950 interactive platform. And so things will pop up all 461 00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:45.710 throughout the platform, and it's it is meant to 462 00:28:45.710 --> 00:28:49.170 be a church. It is meant to be a spiritual space 463 00:28:49.555 --> 00:28:53.235 where you can come and be renewed and meditate and 464 00:28:53.235 --> 00:28:56.995 do a prayer labyrinth and anything that you would ever want to do at a 465 00:28:56.995 --> 00:29:00.595 church, but wherever you are in the world, which I just 466 00:29:00.595 --> 00:29:04.330 absolutely love. Do you hold consistent office hours 467 00:29:04.330 --> 00:29:08.090 within this space? So somebody popping on, say, at 468 00:29:08.090 --> 00:29:11.450 11 o'clock would, you know, count on seeing pastor 469 00:29:11.450 --> 00:29:15.105 JJ at that time. Yes. So, normally, 470 00:29:15.164 --> 00:29:18.845 I do office hours, and it's interesting with all of our time zones 471 00:29:18.845 --> 00:29:22.524 since I'm here in Vienna, and a lot of our folks are in the US, 472 00:29:22.524 --> 00:29:26.284 but also Kenya and Europe, and Australia. That's most difficult time 473 00:29:26.284 --> 00:29:29.929 zone for us right now. Is I'm here on 474 00:29:29.929 --> 00:29:33.690 Mondays, for 2 hours and Thursdays, and then we 475 00:29:33.690 --> 00:29:37.149 have, different services to try and accommodate 476 00:29:37.450 --> 00:29:41.245 different time zones. So our weekly worship, and I'll walk you up to our 477 00:29:41.245 --> 00:29:44.925 sanctuary here. We're in the sanctuary now sitting 478 00:29:44.925 --> 00:29:48.685 by a fireplace that's glowing yellow because if you press x, 479 00:29:48.685 --> 00:29:52.445 it will give you the link to watch our last week service while you're sitting 480 00:29:52.445 --> 00:29:56.110 here at a cute digital fireplace. Right? And, 481 00:29:56.470 --> 00:29:59.910 there are virtual dogs that will come with you wherever you 482 00:29:59.910 --> 00:30:03.430 like. And this is where our 483 00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:05.530 worship happens here in the sanctuary, 484 00:30:07.045 --> 00:30:10.885 every Saturday at 12 PM EST, 11 PM CST, and 9 AM 485 00:30:10.885 --> 00:30:14.325 Pacific time. And so we gather here in this virtual 486 00:30:14.325 --> 00:30:17.925 sanctuary, and we've repurposed the Methodist small 487 00:30:17.925 --> 00:30:20.585 group model. So during our worship, 488 00:30:21.620 --> 00:30:25.460 we are about 40 minutes because online research 489 00:30:25.460 --> 00:30:28.920 shows that 40 minutes is about the attention span of folks online. 490 00:30:29.380 --> 00:30:33.220 And so our worship services are about 40 minutes. And during the 491 00:30:33.220 --> 00:30:37.025 service, I only share I say, a 5 minute mini 492 00:30:37.025 --> 00:30:40.705 sermon. It's usually 7 ish minutes of a mini 493 00:30:40.705 --> 00:30:44.465 sermon to introduce Faster time. That's 5 minutes. Right? Exactly. 494 00:30:44.465 --> 00:30:48.145 Right? Yes. And so I just introduced 495 00:30:48.145 --> 00:30:51.510 the topic. And then most of the service is spent 496 00:30:51.510 --> 00:30:55.350 around these virtual couches, which is our way 497 00:30:55.350 --> 00:30:59.030 of repurposing the Methodist small group model. So you can 498 00:30:59.030 --> 00:31:02.170 talk to the folks who are also around your couch. 499 00:31:02.895 --> 00:31:06.655 And so keep in mind when you're here, you're talking with folks 500 00:31:06.655 --> 00:31:10.095 from around the world. So you're talking with, folks from Uganda and 501 00:31:10.095 --> 00:31:13.775 Kenya and California, during worship, and 502 00:31:13.775 --> 00:31:17.580 we reflect on 3 questions, as part of our worship 503 00:31:17.580 --> 00:31:21.420 and that's the majority of our time is talking together, sharing the 504 00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:25.180 wisdom from each person's experiences, and 505 00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:29.015 discussing how the theme of the day. And, normally, we use the 506 00:31:29.015 --> 00:31:32.695 lectionary. United Methodist, Discipleship Ministries offers us great 507 00:31:32.695 --> 00:31:36.295 resources, which we often use, and to talk 508 00:31:36.295 --> 00:31:39.815 about how that theme is not only applicable to our spiritual 509 00:31:39.815 --> 00:31:43.590 lives, but in real Methodist Wesleyan fashion, how it 510 00:31:43.590 --> 00:31:47.350 calls us deeper into our communities wherever we are around the 511 00:31:47.350 --> 00:31:51.049 world. One of the things I know you've thought through is how you involve 512 00:31:51.110 --> 00:31:54.955 people once they kinda enter into the space. Can you take us 513 00:31:54.955 --> 00:31:58.715 through that journey a little bit? So say for example, I decided 514 00:31:58.715 --> 00:32:00.735 that I'm gonna come and, 515 00:32:02.715 --> 00:32:06.075 fishbowl in a sense to the, the next worship 516 00:32:06.075 --> 00:32:09.695 gathering. What would that look like for me? 517 00:32:10.610 --> 00:32:14.370 Thank you. That is a really great comment. So 518 00:32:14.370 --> 00:32:18.130 we we try to be along with our call to be as 519 00:32:18.130 --> 00:32:21.570 accessible as possible and to give more agency to each 520 00:32:21.570 --> 00:32:25.225 person who worships with us, that means creating 521 00:32:25.285 --> 00:32:29.045 intentional space because I know for me, at least, when I enter 522 00:32:29.045 --> 00:32:32.885 a church, whether it's physical or digital, I feel like there's the 523 00:32:32.885 --> 00:32:36.645 expectation that I need to be present, meaning I need 524 00:32:36.645 --> 00:32:40.450 to participate. And so I would feel the burden 525 00:32:40.450 --> 00:32:43.830 of, yeah, I need to turn my camera on. I need to unmute. 526 00:32:44.210 --> 00:32:47.570 And so if you're like me at all in that way, then we 527 00:32:47.570 --> 00:32:51.010 also have created spaces. Is is that a yes? I see 528 00:32:51.010 --> 00:32:54.595 some Yes. Yes. Yeah. Slightly. 529 00:32:54.595 --> 00:32:58.435 Yeah. Even past the the fishbowl, I guess, experience. That was the wrong term 530 00:32:58.435 --> 00:33:01.635 for it. But if I'm looking to if it's my first time, I'm a first 531 00:33:01.635 --> 00:33:05.235 time visitor in your worship space. Yeah. What does that journey look 532 00:33:05.235 --> 00:33:08.610 like? Yeah. So once you get in 533 00:33:08.610 --> 00:33:12.150 here and you choose so you click the link on our website, youngprofitscollective.org. 534 00:33:13.409 --> 00:33:16.150 It says click here to access our Gather, campus. 535 00:33:17.730 --> 00:33:21.135 Once you click that, you enter your name, your 536 00:33:21.135 --> 00:33:24.895 pronouns, you can edit your avatar to reflect any features that you 537 00:33:24.895 --> 00:33:28.595 would like it to have, including mobility devices like a wheelchair. 538 00:33:29.855 --> 00:33:33.690 And once you've done that, it'll say welcome, who would you like to 539 00:33:33.690 --> 00:33:37.309 see, and you click on anyone who has greeter in their name. 540 00:33:37.530 --> 00:33:40.970 This is only for your first time in. If it's your first time visiting, that's 541 00:33:40.970 --> 00:33:44.809 how we keep the space safe from zoom bombing, for instance, something 542 00:33:44.809 --> 00:33:48.655 like that. And so you click on someone who has greeter in their 543 00:33:48.655 --> 00:33:52.495 name, you're admitted, and you're welcomed into the space. And at 544 00:33:52.495 --> 00:33:56.255 that point, you can either turn on your camera and mic or 545 00:33:56.255 --> 00:33:59.880 not and just put in the chat, hi. Thank you for admitting me or 546 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:03.480 whatnot. Glad to be here. And we have lots of 547 00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:07.020 tours of the space on our Instagram to try and give folks an understanding, 548 00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:10.699 but normally the greeter will put you right here in the sanctuary. 549 00:34:11.235 --> 00:34:14.835 And if at that point you'd still just like to be present but not 550 00:34:14.835 --> 00:34:18.275 participate, you can come to this couch in the middle that says 551 00:34:18.275 --> 00:34:21.975 quiet area. And so if you step here with your avatar, 552 00:34:22.275 --> 00:34:26.110 no one will bug you and you can no social expectations 553 00:34:26.410 --> 00:34:30.170 to participate whatsoever. We're just happy you're here, that you're 554 00:34:30.170 --> 00:34:33.850 present with us for worship. There was another cool feature that I I saw lifted 555 00:34:33.850 --> 00:34:37.370 up on your website that once your avatar comes in 556 00:34:37.370 --> 00:34:40.984 close proximity with somebody else's, then an additional 557 00:34:40.984 --> 00:34:43.804 window appears. Can you tell us about that a little bit? 558 00:34:44.664 --> 00:34:47.864 This is the other thing I love about this, and it come it comes back 559 00:34:47.864 --> 00:34:51.560 to that proximity and intimacy that you talked about. So 560 00:34:51.560 --> 00:34:55.320 if someone else is in the space, you'll see my r two d 561 00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:59.000 two bot here. I'm a Star Wars nerd, so, we had to 562 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:02.840 name it r two d two. Once r two d two comes close 563 00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:06.515 to me, right now, I'm in a private space. So 564 00:35:06.575 --> 00:35:10.355 r 2d2 can't see or hear me, and I can't see or hear r 2d2. 565 00:35:10.734 --> 00:35:14.515 But if r 2d2 steps in here, now 566 00:35:14.895 --> 00:35:18.734 we can see and hear the camera's off, but you see the face of the 567 00:35:18.734 --> 00:35:22.470 avatar here. And so you would see and hear 568 00:35:22.470 --> 00:35:25.990 and would be able to talk to one another in a private space much like 569 00:35:25.990 --> 00:35:29.670 in a physical church if you wanted to chat after coffee hour. Now if 570 00:35:29.670 --> 00:35:33.030 you're not in a private space, for instance, if r two d two and I 571 00:35:33.030 --> 00:35:36.185 were walking outside here just in the sanctuary, 572 00:35:36.885 --> 00:35:40.645 when we get close to each other, his image gets bigger, 573 00:35:40.965 --> 00:35:44.565 and, more colorful. When I 574 00:35:44.565 --> 00:35:47.925 walk away like a physical space, it starts to fade 575 00:35:47.925 --> 00:35:51.410 out and then you'll notice it disappears so that it 576 00:35:51.410 --> 00:35:55.250 mimics the, spatial aspect of a 577 00:35:55.250 --> 00:35:58.930 physical gathering in a way that Zoom or Facebook live 578 00:35:58.930 --> 00:36:02.595 just can't. And I love that about this space. Yes. That is very 579 00:36:02.755 --> 00:36:06.515 Do you get a sense of how people are discovering the young prophets 580 00:36:06.515 --> 00:36:08.935 collective in in the church of the young prophets? 581 00:36:12.275 --> 00:36:16.115 You know, it's a lot of word-of-mouth right now for our the folks 582 00:36:16.115 --> 00:36:18.750 who have gone through our young prophets cohort program, 583 00:36:19.690 --> 00:36:23.390 and have been part of our community for a while. Instagram 584 00:36:23.690 --> 00:36:27.470 is our main area. You know, we say we have several campuses 585 00:36:27.610 --> 00:36:31.210 at Church of the Young Prophets. One of them is gather, and for 586 00:36:31.210 --> 00:36:34.945 me, this is this is a bias that 587 00:36:34.945 --> 00:36:38.385 I have that I also had to check that for me when I think of 588 00:36:38.385 --> 00:36:42.065 my virtual church, this virtual church, I think of it as gather. I 589 00:36:42.065 --> 00:36:45.045 think of that as the the main campus. 590 00:36:45.744 --> 00:36:49.530 But church is beyond a space, whether that be 591 00:36:49.530 --> 00:36:52.890 a physical or a digital space, and I had to check that for a digital 592 00:36:52.890 --> 00:36:56.170 space as well. So, most of our 593 00:36:56.329 --> 00:37:00.170 another one of our campuses is our Instagram account with Young Prophets 594 00:37:00.170 --> 00:37:03.415 Collective, and we try to post resources 595 00:37:03.795 --> 00:37:07.095 and links, and just content that's specifically 596 00:37:07.155 --> 00:37:10.915 designed to engage people's spirituality on Instagram. So that's another 597 00:37:10.915 --> 00:37:14.755 way that folks are finding us, and how we are trying to navigate 598 00:37:14.755 --> 00:37:17.815 that. And we've used a couple other chat platforms as well, 599 00:37:18.730 --> 00:37:22.330 specifically Discord. Have yeah. Which was new to me. Yeah. 600 00:37:22.330 --> 00:37:25.930 Okay. And it Discord can be cool because 601 00:37:25.930 --> 00:37:29.690 it's, it's kind of the ever present space. So it 602 00:37:29.690 --> 00:37:33.405 seems that the the gather is kind of been marked by, well, you 603 00:37:33.405 --> 00:37:37.085 know, we have certain hours in which that space is occupied by 604 00:37:37.085 --> 00:37:39.905 other people, but the discord is the always present. Is, 605 00:37:41.645 --> 00:37:45.245 is that kind of how you're using that that discord space now 606 00:37:45.245 --> 00:37:48.010 to kind of maintain some asynchronous 607 00:37:48.869 --> 00:37:52.710 conversations? Yes. And I love how you said 608 00:37:52.710 --> 00:37:56.330 ever present. That that was my my difficulty 609 00:37:56.470 --> 00:38:00.155 with Zoom worship was that you join it, and then it's it disappears. 610 00:38:00.155 --> 00:38:03.375 It's gone. There's no sense of space that I can come back to. 611 00:38:03.835 --> 00:38:07.355 And that's one of the reasons I love gather is and a lot of our 612 00:38:07.355 --> 00:38:11.055 folks will use physical language of, yeah, I'm going to church. 613 00:38:11.515 --> 00:38:15.280 I I'm entering the sanctuary. I and it it is a 614 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:19.120 space that is always there. So even if we don't have a worship 615 00:38:19.120 --> 00:38:22.960 service happening or office hours, everyone, once you're 616 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:26.775 admitted the first time, you become a member and you're able to come 617 00:38:26.775 --> 00:38:30.535 back whenever you'd like so that you can, you know, go to the 618 00:38:30.535 --> 00:38:34.295 labyrinth. You can play games on our rooftop lounge with a friend who happens to 619 00:38:34.295 --> 00:38:37.895 also be there, to give that sense of ever 620 00:38:37.895 --> 00:38:41.640 present, space to go to. But then for the asynchronous 621 00:38:41.860 --> 00:38:45.460 conversation, like you said, Discord has really become 622 00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:49.240 our 2nd primary campus. And 623 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:53.620 I did not know Discord. So if you have not heard of it, folks, that 624 00:38:53.620 --> 00:38:57.194 is a okay. I am new to it. People in the community 625 00:38:57.194 --> 00:39:00.015 said, yeah. We have to have Discord because we have a lot of gamers. 626 00:39:00.954 --> 00:39:04.714 And so I had to learn very quickly how to use it, but it it 627 00:39:04.714 --> 00:39:08.370 really is that is one of the spaces, where 628 00:39:08.610 --> 00:39:12.370 we experience church the most, where we have conversations throughout the week, 629 00:39:12.370 --> 00:39:16.130 where the worship questions are shared and people can chat in a thread, where we 630 00:39:16.130 --> 00:39:19.670 have a prayer channel. We have spiritual resources so folks can find, 631 00:39:20.290 --> 00:39:24.025 different activities online and, can just chat and 632 00:39:24.025 --> 00:39:27.785 share what's going on in their lives with one another in a 633 00:39:27.785 --> 00:39:31.225 way that is intentional so that it's not random 634 00:39:31.225 --> 00:39:34.905 online strangers, but we intentionally have an 635 00:39:34.905 --> 00:39:38.590 introductions channel where once you're added to our Discord 636 00:39:38.590 --> 00:39:42.350 server, you're invited to share a little bit about yourself in 637 00:39:42.350 --> 00:39:46.110 a designated channel for introductions so that if a new 638 00:39:46.110 --> 00:39:49.795 person comes in, they can look through this channel and say, yeah. 639 00:39:49.795 --> 00:39:53.395 I, you know, I know Ryan. He's that guy that works at 640 00:39:53.395 --> 00:39:57.235 Umcomm, that really cool pastor that's in Nashville. And questions can 641 00:39:57.235 --> 00:40:01.075 become more personal and more intimate of, oh, you know, how's the weather in 642 00:40:01.075 --> 00:40:04.215 Nashville instead of, oh, you know, hey, 643 00:40:05.049 --> 00:40:08.809 Discord user 76. That was 644 00:40:08.809 --> 00:40:12.569 about you. Mhmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well, 645 00:40:12.569 --> 00:40:16.109 I appreciate you leading us through the the whole experience. 646 00:40:16.410 --> 00:40:20.045 I do have one more question for you, JJ. If if, 647 00:40:20.525 --> 00:40:24.205 JJ of 2024 were to 648 00:40:24.205 --> 00:40:28.045 send a message back to JJ of of 2019 or 2020, the 649 00:40:28.045 --> 00:40:31.485 JJ who was kind of lifting off the ground, the Young Prophets 650 00:40:31.485 --> 00:40:34.925 collective, what is one piece of advice that you might give 651 00:40:34.925 --> 00:40:38.580 yourself? You know, maybe, avoid 652 00:40:38.580 --> 00:40:42.339 doing this. It's not fruitful or, you know, definitely 653 00:40:42.339 --> 00:40:45.800 get to doing this as soon as possible. Yeah. 654 00:40:47.220 --> 00:40:49.400 I think I think I would tell myself 655 00:40:51.045 --> 00:40:54.885 to rest, that it is okay and 656 00:40:54.885 --> 00:40:58.585 that things things will evolve and that communities 657 00:40:59.525 --> 00:41:03.240 will take shape naturally. It takes intentionality, 658 00:41:03.700 --> 00:41:07.460 but it doesn't take all of my energy. And I think that 659 00:41:07.460 --> 00:41:11.060 that has been a really powerful lesson for me in this 660 00:41:11.060 --> 00:41:14.580 virtual church experience is to say creating 661 00:41:14.580 --> 00:41:18.245 these communities or extending your physical church online 662 00:41:18.245 --> 00:41:21.865 in a in a real, multidirectional way. 663 00:41:22.645 --> 00:41:26.245 It takes energy and intentionality, but it it 664 00:41:26.245 --> 00:41:30.005 doesn't have to be exhausting that I I can 665 00:41:30.005 --> 00:41:33.640 just bring myself and we can just bring the relationships we 666 00:41:33.640 --> 00:41:37.480 have to this space. And if they are 667 00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:41.320 healing and if they are filled with love, they will resonate 668 00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:44.785 with others, and that is enough. Okay. So 669 00:41:44.785 --> 00:41:48.545 I'm making a liar out of myself because this leads to another question 670 00:41:48.545 --> 00:41:52.385 that I have for you. And it's one that I think a 671 00:41:52.385 --> 00:41:56.225 lot of people can relate to because, first of all, ministry in 672 00:41:56.225 --> 00:41:59.400 and of itself can be exhaustive. It can be hard to set up boundaries. 673 00:42:00.100 --> 00:42:03.700 Digital ministry can be a little tougher to set 674 00:42:03.700 --> 00:42:07.480 up some of those boundaries because of the always on 675 00:42:07.540 --> 00:42:11.075 aspect of it. Right? What are some ways that 676 00:42:11.075 --> 00:42:14.835 that you kinda set those boundaries around yourself 677 00:42:14.835 --> 00:42:17.655 so you do have purposeful time of rest? 678 00:42:18.994 --> 00:42:22.454 That's fantastic. And now you sound like my board of ordained ministry. 679 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.780 Wonderful that they are asking that question, though. Right? 680 00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:31.920 Yes. Yes. As we talked about How are you gonna do more? It's how are 681 00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:35.440 you gonna rest more? Yeah. Yes. Yes. And 682 00:42:35.600 --> 00:42:39.085 right. The the potential pitfall of, 683 00:42:39.085 --> 00:42:42.684 okay, as a gen z or most of my life is online and 684 00:42:42.684 --> 00:42:46.305 now church is online. Where's the separation 685 00:42:46.365 --> 00:42:49.724 here? Is there any separation? How do I, how do I still set 686 00:42:49.724 --> 00:42:53.429 boundaries? Whereas before maybe it was, you know, I 687 00:42:53.549 --> 00:42:57.309 I'm not gonna go to the church office on these days, but 688 00:42:57.309 --> 00:43:00.990 maybe you'd still get phone calls and emails. But in this 689 00:43:00.990 --> 00:43:04.530 way, what I've tried to do is to identify platforms 690 00:43:04.829 --> 00:43:08.235 that are mostly for ministry for me, 691 00:43:08.775 --> 00:43:12.155 and platforms that are more private. So for example, 692 00:43:12.535 --> 00:43:16.375 most people in the church community don't have my phone number, 693 00:43:16.375 --> 00:43:20.120 so that is not an option for texting. The way 694 00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:23.640 that they can contact me for church related or ministry related 695 00:43:23.640 --> 00:43:27.080 things is email or Discord. And for 696 00:43:27.080 --> 00:43:30.840 Discord, I also try to keep certain hours. So 697 00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:34.555 I will not be on Discord, most times, you know, 698 00:43:34.555 --> 00:43:38.315 at 11 PM. I will be offline, and they know that 699 00:43:38.315 --> 00:43:41.835 that's okay, that they I will get back to them in the 700 00:43:41.835 --> 00:43:45.435 morning my time. And so that's that's been a boundary. And 701 00:43:45.435 --> 00:43:48.990 another is just maintaining a Sabbath. So they you know, the community knows 702 00:43:49.210 --> 00:43:52.750 that on Sundays, I am totally offline since we meet on Saturdays 703 00:43:53.210 --> 00:43:56.430 so as to not interfere with in person churches folks might attend. 704 00:43:57.050 --> 00:44:00.410 And so on Sundays, I'm totally offline. I try to get away from a 705 00:44:00.410 --> 00:44:04.255 screen, get outside. And, that's that's a way 706 00:44:04.255 --> 00:44:08.095 that I've been setting boundaries for myself. Cool. Alright. And 707 00:44:08.095 --> 00:44:11.555 if you wanna see the video for that, it's available on YouTube. 708 00:44:11.775 --> 00:44:15.615 It has all the, well, cool displays that JJ took us through so you can 709 00:44:15.615 --> 00:44:19.150 peer at that stuff there. More episodes of compass 710 00:44:19.150 --> 00:44:22.990 are on the way again. We're gonna be talking about the excursion that I 711 00:44:22.990 --> 00:44:26.510 had to Virginia. Also gonna be sharing about rage prayers, some 712 00:44:26.510 --> 00:44:30.255 exciting things of flood. So stay tuned for that. We'll be back in 2 weeks 713 00:44:30.255 --> 00:44:34.015 time. Hey, if you're interested, check out the Mycom podcast. If you're a 714 00:44:34.015 --> 00:44:37.855 church leader who wants to know more about how we're developing tools 715 00:44:37.855 --> 00:44:41.694 for the digital age and building our digital ministry toolkits, that's the 716 00:44:41.694 --> 00:44:45.090 place to go. My name is Reverend Ryan Dunn. Look forward to talking to you 717 00:44:45.090 --> 00:44:46.390 again soon. Peace.