WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.719 --> 00:00:04.319 Hi there. This is The Compass Podcast, Finding Spirituality in the 2 00:00:04.319 --> 00:00:08.000 Everyday. I'm host Ryan Dunn. And for this episode, I got to have a 3 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:11.139 conversation with Aaron Hicks Moon, a dynamic 4 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:15.085 podcaster who is one of the producers and hosts for 5 00:00:15.085 --> 00:00:18.925 the Faith Adjacent podcast. And Aaron is author of 6 00:00:18.925 --> 00:00:21.904 the upcoming book, I've Got Questions. 7 00:00:22.445 --> 00:00:26.224 Kinda relevant because I bet you got some questions too. Together, 8 00:00:26.285 --> 00:00:29.779 Aaron and I explored the profound impact of asking 9 00:00:29.779 --> 00:00:33.620 questions within one's faith journey and how curiosity can 10 00:00:33.620 --> 00:00:37.399 deepen our personal understanding of beliefs. 11 00:00:37.540 --> 00:00:41.320 Erin shared her experiences growing up in evangelical culture, 12 00:00:41.860 --> 00:00:45.495 the challenges of navigating faith and skepticism, 13 00:00:46.275 --> 00:00:50.035 and how her work on the Faith Adjacent podcast has provided a safe 14 00:00:50.035 --> 00:00:53.715 space for theological exploration. We 15 00:00:53.715 --> 00:00:57.155 have lots of conversations around faith exploration and 16 00:00:57.155 --> 00:01:00.840 curiosity and investing in personal faith practices on the 17 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.540 Compass podcast. So if this kind of content is meaningful 18 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:08.280 for you, then go ahead and hit the subscribe button on 19 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:12.040 your podcast listening platform. If you've already done that, then take 20 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:15.575 the next step and help someone else discover Compass by 21 00:01:15.575 --> 00:01:19.335 leaving a rating and or review of the podcast on your podcast 22 00:01:19.335 --> 00:01:22.775 app. That really helps new people discover our 23 00:01:22.775 --> 00:01:26.610 conversations here on Compass. Some things for you to 24 00:01:26.610 --> 00:01:30.450 discover in this episode include the value of 25 00:01:30.450 --> 00:01:33.810 humor in discussing serious faith topics, the 26 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:37.110 value of exploring diverse voices in theology, 27 00:01:37.875 --> 00:01:41.635 and ways to find communities that don't always just run away 28 00:01:41.635 --> 00:01:45.475 from spiritual questions. I had fun in this conversation. I think 29 00:01:45.475 --> 00:01:48.915 you'll have fun in this conversation. So let's get to it. Here's 30 00:01:48.915 --> 00:01:51.570 Erin Hicks Moon on Compass. 31 00:01:54.670 --> 00:01:58.189 Well, Erin, so glad to hear that, you've thawed out from our 32 00:01:58.189 --> 00:02:01.630 winter weather here in, kind of the mid south and lower 33 00:02:01.630 --> 00:02:05.295 south. How goes it with your soul today? I'm pretty great. How about you? 34 00:02:05.375 --> 00:02:08.755 Thank you so much for having me. This is so great. You bet. 35 00:02:09.694 --> 00:02:13.535 I'm I'm doing just fine. Thank you for asking. A little 36 00:02:13.535 --> 00:02:17.135 underprepared for that. I'm like, wait a minute. Hang on just a second. Be 37 00:02:17.135 --> 00:02:20.355 asking the questions here. Oh, well, 38 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:24.780 speaking of questions, book coming out. I've got questions 39 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.540 is the title. Can you share a little bit about how asking 40 00:02:28.600 --> 00:02:32.440 questions has impacted or shaped your faith journey, 41 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:36.135 which as I read through the book, like, I mentioned that word journey, 42 00:02:36.375 --> 00:02:39.735 we're supposed to have a drink now. Yeah. Have a drink. I just have coffee, 43 00:02:39.735 --> 00:02:43.335 but, That's fine. That'll work. Yeah. So how has that shaped 44 00:02:43.335 --> 00:02:46.635 your, your faith journey? Has it led to kind of a more 45 00:02:47.100 --> 00:02:50.700 personal understanding of beliefs or deepened your faith in any 46 00:02:50.700 --> 00:02:54.460 way? Yeah. I think so. I think, you know, when you're young, I grew 47 00:02:54.460 --> 00:02:57.840 up in, you know, evangelical culture, Southern Baptist, 48 00:02:58.220 --> 00:03:02.060 and I had a great experience, well, a much better experience 49 00:03:02.060 --> 00:03:05.275 that I know a lot of other people had. And so but there was still 50 00:03:05.275 --> 00:03:09.035 this, like, just have faith. Like, you don't you don't need to worry 51 00:03:09.035 --> 00:03:12.795 about questions, but I really do believe that questions are where we 52 00:03:12.795 --> 00:03:16.520 build relationships. That's how we get to know one another. That's 53 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:20.280 how, you know, I learn what my kids love. That's how I you 54 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.319 know, when I was dating my husband, that's how I knew I was in love 55 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:27.000 with him because of how he answered questions. And I think it's 56 00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:30.795 it there is a tendency, I think, to kind of 57 00:03:30.795 --> 00:03:34.555 stifle curiosity because it feels dangerous. It feels, it 58 00:03:34.555 --> 00:03:38.235 feels scary. It feels outside the norm, and, you know, we do not 59 00:03:38.235 --> 00:03:42.075 like that. We especially don't like that in religious institutions. We like everyone to 60 00:03:42.075 --> 00:03:45.470 just stay in line and you'll be fine. But those you 61 00:03:45.470 --> 00:03:49.150 know, yes. I think it did lead to me and and this is 62 00:03:49.150 --> 00:03:52.830 really an owning your faith process. It's working out your faith 63 00:03:52.830 --> 00:03:56.205 with fear and trembling. It's not letting someone else 64 00:03:56.445 --> 00:04:00.045 decide what you believe, essentially. And I think that is the 65 00:04:00.045 --> 00:04:03.485 benefit of asking questions around your faith. Was 66 00:04:03.485 --> 00:04:06.845 there any point during your process of of 67 00:04:06.845 --> 00:04:10.440 questioning and curiosity in which you felt like, oh, we're kind of on a 68 00:04:10.440 --> 00:04:13.960 dangerous end here. I need to pump the brakes on this. No. Not 69 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.660 dangerous because I really tried to give myself permission 70 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.720 to say just because I'm reading this or just because I'm thinking 71 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:25.005 this or wondering about this does not mean that I automatically 72 00:04:25.225 --> 00:04:28.745 subscribe to it. And I think there were a lot of things that I've since 73 00:04:28.745 --> 00:04:32.185 moved on about that they felt dangerous as well at one 74 00:04:32.185 --> 00:04:34.685 point. And I also wanna consider who's 75 00:04:35.545 --> 00:04:39.385 who's throwing up the warning flare there. Like, what what do they 76 00:04:39.385 --> 00:04:42.840 have to lose? What do they have to gain if I think this, if 77 00:04:42.840 --> 00:04:46.380 I ask this question? Not not trying to be cynical 78 00:04:46.440 --> 00:04:50.280 and suspicious of everyone, but also knowing that some people don't want you 79 00:04:50.280 --> 00:04:53.695 to ask questions because it means that their power in your life isn't as 80 00:04:53.695 --> 00:04:57.375 strong or that they think that you're and and some of that comes from a 81 00:04:57.375 --> 00:05:00.735 really kind and loving place. They don't want you 82 00:05:00.735 --> 00:05:04.575 to have incorrect beliefs, quote, unquote. They don't want you 83 00:05:04.575 --> 00:05:08.090 to backslide or be considered a heretic or anything like that. 84 00:05:08.310 --> 00:05:11.990 And so for me, I I don't know that there was a 85 00:05:11.990 --> 00:05:15.830 moment that I thought, no. What are we doing here? But I just 86 00:05:15.830 --> 00:05:19.190 really tried to allow myself to sit in a posture of 87 00:05:19.190 --> 00:05:22.735 curiosity and not not necessarily cling to whatever I was 88 00:05:22.735 --> 00:05:26.435 asking. It sometimes we're a little reticent 89 00:05:26.495 --> 00:05:30.175 to ask the questions because, as you noted, it might separate 90 00:05:30.175 --> 00:05:33.694 us from the community that we've been a part of. During your process of 91 00:05:33.694 --> 00:05:37.479 curiosity and curiosity and skepticism, was there kind 92 00:05:37.479 --> 00:05:41.160 of a safe harbor community? Well, 93 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.680 yes. I think what was helpful is that I'm also a 94 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:48.465 podcaster. As we are I don't think this is a process that ever 95 00:05:48.465 --> 00:05:52.224 really ends. I think this is, again, the process of working out 96 00:05:52.224 --> 00:05:55.745 your faith. So I was part of my job is I'm the 97 00:05:55.745 --> 00:05:59.585 resident Bible scholar on the Faith Adjacent podcast. And so what I 98 00:05:59.585 --> 00:06:03.104 would do back in the day when we were first starting out is my 99 00:06:03.104 --> 00:06:06.740 cohost, Knox and Jamie, they would take a Bible story and they would 100 00:06:06.740 --> 00:06:10.520 recap it like a book or a movie or a TV show and just slightly 101 00:06:10.580 --> 00:06:14.020 heretical, just teensy bit. And then I would come in at the end and I 102 00:06:14.020 --> 00:06:17.780 would, as the resident Bible scholar, offer a gentle rebuke, which 103 00:06:17.780 --> 00:06:21.574 was, like, hey. Maybe we don't wanna we don't wanna say this or 104 00:06:21.574 --> 00:06:25.175 this is actually another way that you can interpret that scripture, something like 105 00:06:25.175 --> 00:06:28.935 that. There was built in, for part of 106 00:06:28.935 --> 00:06:32.580 my process, this community of people who were listening, who 107 00:06:32.580 --> 00:06:36.280 were asking the same questions, who were in the same curiosities. 108 00:06:36.740 --> 00:06:40.580 And so we kind of developed this back and forth relationship 109 00:06:40.580 --> 00:06:44.260 of, like, okay. We have a question about this. Let's explore it together. And 110 00:06:44.260 --> 00:06:47.985 that was so valuable for me. But I think even 111 00:06:47.985 --> 00:06:51.665 in the beginning, when I first started kind of 112 00:06:51.665 --> 00:06:55.505 asking those questions, there is an isolation aspect to 113 00:06:55.505 --> 00:06:59.104 that because you are outside the camp now. You don't 114 00:06:59.104 --> 00:07:02.819 necessarily subscribe or or you're asking questions about that, and that's 115 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:06.439 putting you outside the camp. So I think it can be a very 116 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:10.020 isolating and lonely process, and I think that's why a lot of people don't wanna 117 00:07:10.020 --> 00:07:13.560 do it. Yeah. Did you encounter that yourself 118 00:07:13.699 --> 00:07:17.445 in feeling a sense of separation from a community that you were previously 119 00:07:17.445 --> 00:07:21.145 a part of? Yes. Absolutely. I, 100% did. 120 00:07:22.085 --> 00:07:25.065 That it's still very difficult. It's still 121 00:07:25.525 --> 00:07:28.565 enormously painful, and and that's not necessarily because anybody did anything wrong or, it was 122 00:07:28.565 --> 00:07:32.240 just, did anything wrong or, it 123 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:36.080 was just this is not 124 00:07:36.080 --> 00:07:38.900 a place where I can 125 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.840 be the person that I am. And by nature, I'm a very curious person, and 126 00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:47.685 I wanna ask questions and I wanna I wanna challenge things 127 00:07:47.745 --> 00:07:51.345 when I don't when I don't see the purpose of them. And so it was 128 00:07:51.425 --> 00:07:54.944 that was just not an environment that was conducive to that. And so, yeah, I 129 00:07:54.944 --> 00:07:58.710 think I think that happens to everyone even if you still 130 00:07:58.710 --> 00:08:02.250 have a community that's supportive. It's just it's a very isolating 131 00:08:02.310 --> 00:08:06.069 thing. I wanna know that you still identify, or 132 00:08:06.069 --> 00:08:09.910 land in the space of faith. Yeah. Right? Yeah. We we 133 00:08:09.910 --> 00:08:13.645 talk about kind of these deconstructing questions and how they challenge our beliefs a little 134 00:08:13.645 --> 00:08:17.264 bit, but you still have entered into this process. I think it's an ongoing 135 00:08:17.324 --> 00:08:19.505 process and still 136 00:08:20.685 --> 00:08:24.285 are are a person of faith. Yes. I yeah. And that has 137 00:08:24.285 --> 00:08:27.699 always been the case for me. I mean, since I was 8 years old, I 138 00:08:27.699 --> 00:08:31.319 feel like I have had had that connection with God. 139 00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:35.140 Even even in the times when I was like, does is God there? Is God 140 00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:38.659 exist? And are we is this just all just, like, a big opium for 141 00:08:38.659 --> 00:08:41.475 masses, or is this real? Even in that, 142 00:08:42.434 --> 00:08:46.035 still continuing to have conversations with God, still continuing to look for 143 00:08:46.035 --> 00:08:49.634 God, to try to understand the gospels, to try to understand scripture, I 144 00:08:49.634 --> 00:08:53.315 think I'm I there was that was not an that was not ever 145 00:08:53.315 --> 00:08:57.140 anything that I ever left, essentially. I may have gone outside the 146 00:08:57.140 --> 00:09:00.440 bounds of whatever other people thought was traditional 147 00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:03.860 or, you know, orthodoxy, quote, unquote, but 148 00:09:04.820 --> 00:09:08.120 and and listen. I don't I don't blame anyone 149 00:09:08.420 --> 00:09:12.035 who leaves organized religion or religion or faith, specifically 150 00:09:12.035 --> 00:09:15.715 American Christianity, especially because I have 151 00:09:15.715 --> 00:09:19.155 seen firsthand the harm that it has done to people, 152 00:09:19.155 --> 00:09:22.695 and there are people who, if they did not leave, they would not survive. 153 00:09:23.395 --> 00:09:27.040 And so that's want to reclaim faith 154 00:09:27.339 --> 00:09:30.860 as a place that would not hurt 155 00:09:30.860 --> 00:09:34.300 them, that would love them, that would you know, I I don't I don't blame 156 00:09:34.300 --> 00:09:37.899 anyone for taking that that path. It's a it's a real thing. You 157 00:09:37.899 --> 00:09:41.735 mentioned being 8 years old and kinda questioning about the existence 158 00:09:41.795 --> 00:09:45.394 of God. Was that the bugaboo question that kinda started 159 00:09:45.394 --> 00:09:49.154 this quest for this quest of curiosity, or was there some 160 00:09:49.154 --> 00:09:52.995 other question that really started the avalanche? You know, it was a lot 161 00:09:52.995 --> 00:09:56.710 of things. It was I had an experience with my university minister 162 00:09:56.930 --> 00:10:00.550 who essentially told me that which this is hilarious now, but 163 00:10:00.610 --> 00:10:04.370 essentially told me that if I wanted to join the bible study that 164 00:10:04.370 --> 00:10:08.130 he was doing around Wayne Grudem's systematic theology, that that was 165 00:10:08.130 --> 00:10:11.355 for the boys. And yeah. And so if I wanted to find a woman to 166 00:10:11.355 --> 00:10:14.155 walk me through that, I could do that, and we did. Let me just tell 167 00:10:14.155 --> 00:10:17.515 you. Now I would you know, I that's not a bible study I would wanna 168 00:10:17.515 --> 00:10:21.275 be a part of necessarily, but I think it was 169 00:10:21.275 --> 00:10:24.959 it was learning about how we got scripture. It 170 00:10:24.959 --> 00:10:28.100 was learning about the cultural context surrounding 171 00:10:28.560 --> 00:10:32.019 different places in the bible. It was it was reading 172 00:10:32.079 --> 00:10:35.600 other theologians and kind of getting out of that 173 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.435 white Dutch male. Not that there's necessarily necessarily anything wrong with 174 00:10:39.435 --> 00:10:42.795 that. It's just it's not the only perspective. And so I think it was more 175 00:10:42.795 --> 00:10:46.315 of a gradual thing, but, yeah, I mean, that that's 176 00:10:46.315 --> 00:10:49.158 just kind of my personality a little bit. So I'm always, like, what's under there? 177 00:10:49.158 --> 00:10:51.480 What are we doing under there? Yeah. I'm like, what's under there? What are we 178 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:55.100 doing under there? Yeah. It's funny how 179 00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:58.680 podcasters kinda have that streak running through them. We 180 00:10:58.680 --> 00:11:02.360 do. Yeah. I wanna talk about the podcast journey a little bit. 181 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:05.785 Drink in Faith Adjacent, as you mentioned, is the 182 00:11:05.785 --> 00:11:09.385 podcast. Where did that start? So I 183 00:11:09.385 --> 00:11:13.065 wrote bible studies for a really long time. They I wrote 184 00:11:13.065 --> 00:11:16.585 for a couple of different small publishers, some large 185 00:11:16.585 --> 00:11:20.185 publishers. It's somewhat, but we had to do it in a in the 186 00:11:20.185 --> 00:11:23.660 bounds of a certain vein of beliefs. Right? We didn't quote 187 00:11:23.660 --> 00:11:27.500 anyone outside of the agreed upon fully vetted thinkers. We 188 00:11:27.500 --> 00:11:30.800 weren't interested really in different ways of interpreting scripture, 189 00:11:31.260 --> 00:11:34.935 which is fine, but it just meant that I played in a very small sandbox, 190 00:11:35.155 --> 00:11:38.995 and, frankly, it was a very white male sandbox. And 191 00:11:38.995 --> 00:11:42.675 I remember I remember the first time I read, Rachel Held 192 00:11:42.675 --> 00:11:46.035 Evans, and there was this she had a beautiful quote that I had, like, written 193 00:11:46.035 --> 00:11:49.420 down and put on my laptop or whatever, and it it happened to fit 194 00:11:49.880 --> 00:11:53.420 in this Bible study that we were writing, and I wanted to quote her, 195 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:57.320 but I knew I wasn't gonna be allowed to. I instead of 196 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.940 quoting Rachel Held Evans, I quoted r h Evans and 197 00:12:01.515 --> 00:12:05.115 almost got it snuck in there. Subversive. Nice. But 198 00:12:05.115 --> 00:12:08.555 so when Knox and Jamie started, it was 199 00:12:08.555 --> 00:12:12.235 previously called the Bible Binge because we were really just doing those classic bible 200 00:12:12.235 --> 00:12:15.375 stories and talking about them in in the way that we did. 201 00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:19.920 When I came on as the resident bible scholar, suddenly, like, I 202 00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:23.759 got to decide who I read and who I learned 203 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.279 from, and there was just so much out there that I had no 204 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:31.120 clue. You know, womanist theologians and queer theologians, theologians of 205 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:34.845 color and theologians who were not American or British or 206 00:12:34.845 --> 00:12:38.285 Dutch. They they had a completely different cultural context than I did, 207 00:12:38.285 --> 00:12:42.045 and that was really exciting and really interesting to 208 00:12:42.045 --> 00:12:45.660 play in that bigger sandbox where people didn't use the 209 00:12:45.660 --> 00:12:49.120 same, like, sandcastle molds that I'd seen my whole life. 210 00:12:49.900 --> 00:12:53.740 And so that was such a powerful experience to me, and it continues to be 211 00:12:53.740 --> 00:12:57.200 because part of my job is I get to just read different people's 212 00:12:57.535 --> 00:13:01.235 perspectives on different scriptures or different ideologies and it's fascinating 213 00:13:01.295 --> 00:13:04.815 to go, oh my gosh, like, I I would have never seen it this 214 00:13:04.815 --> 00:13:08.655 way because I'm not black or I'm not queer or, you 215 00:13:08.655 --> 00:13:11.199 know, there are just so many different ways 216 00:13:12.379 --> 00:13:15.920 to look at a scripture, to bring who you are to that, 217 00:13:16.459 --> 00:13:20.300 because that is a part of how we interpret scripture. And we call 218 00:13:20.379 --> 00:13:23.680 I think I think, I think it was doctor Wilda Gaffney 219 00:13:23.819 --> 00:13:27.215 that said this, but she was like, every other 220 00:13:27.215 --> 00:13:31.055 theology other than white male theology has 221 00:13:31.055 --> 00:13:34.595 a qualifier for it, and we just call that 222 00:13:34.895 --> 00:13:37.652 theology. But that's not true. And I had never that kind of, like, clarified a 223 00:13:37.652 --> 00:13:38.940 lot for me. I was like, oh my gosh. You're so right. Like, that's like, 224 00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:42.620 clarified a lot for me. I was like, oh my gosh. You're so right. Like, 225 00:13:42.620 --> 00:13:46.460 that's the default setting, and everything else is kinda considered fringe. But 226 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:50.300 that's not that's not really how it is. Yeah. You've mentioned Rachel 227 00:13:50.300 --> 00:13:53.545 Held Evans and Willa Gaffney. Hope this doesn't put you on the spot too much, 228 00:13:53.545 --> 00:13:57.305 but are are there some other theologians that have been a part 229 00:13:57.305 --> 00:14:00.665 of of your process that we can platform here? Oh my gosh. 230 00:14:00.665 --> 00:14:04.125 Yes. I think Howard Thurman, Jesus and the Disinherited, 231 00:14:04.665 --> 00:14:08.140 is so powerful. It was just it was so 232 00:14:08.140 --> 00:14:11.980 deeply transformative for me. You know, I grew up on, 233 00:14:11.980 --> 00:14:15.740 you know, in college, grew up on the Brennan Mannings, the Henri 234 00:14:15.740 --> 00:14:19.040 Nowans, the Wendell Berrys even 235 00:14:19.100 --> 00:14:22.514 poetically, and I think, you know, those really shaped me 236 00:14:22.514 --> 00:14:26.274 as well. But, I mean, gosh. I'm looking at my 237 00:14:26.274 --> 00:14:29.875 bookshelf right now because there are just so many I mean, I I 238 00:14:29.875 --> 00:14:33.555 love n t Wright. I love and there are people that would be considered 239 00:14:33.555 --> 00:14:37.175 that, you know, white male perspective that I I don't I don't 240 00:14:37.230 --> 00:14:40.930 necessarily think that that's bad. I just I wanna know more. 241 00:14:41.310 --> 00:14:45.149 I want to hear more from different people and how they're seeing what their 242 00:14:45.149 --> 00:14:48.589 perspectives are. Well, your work often navigates this kinda 243 00:14:48.589 --> 00:14:52.350 intersection between faith and culture. One of the things that I really got a kick 244 00:14:52.350 --> 00:14:55.845 out of doing was looking through the faith adjacent website, and you bring up 245 00:14:55.845 --> 00:14:59.285 actors to be as physical bible characters. Cast the bible 246 00:14:59.285 --> 00:15:02.965 characters. We don't cast Jesus, and we don't cast God. That 247 00:15:02.965 --> 00:15:06.565 was one of the one of the pieces of feedback that we got when we 248 00:15:06.565 --> 00:15:10.330 originally sent out the the first episode was like, I love 249 00:15:10.330 --> 00:15:14.170 this. Don't ever cast God, and don't ever cast Jesus. And so we were like, 250 00:15:14.170 --> 00:15:17.850 cheers. Okay. We won't do that. I love it too. It's fun. I I don't 251 00:15:17.850 --> 00:15:20.910 always agree, but that's part of the fun of it as well. So, 252 00:15:21.690 --> 00:15:25.335 how do you think that engaging with culture in that 253 00:15:25.335 --> 00:15:28.715 way helps to make faith relevant 254 00:15:28.775 --> 00:15:32.615 or make it authentic for folks? I think, you know, 255 00:15:32.615 --> 00:15:36.295 we I don't think it's possible to really divorce our faith from what's 256 00:15:36.295 --> 00:15:40.010 happening in the world around us. I think I understand 257 00:15:40.010 --> 00:15:43.610 the tendency to want to, to disengage with the 258 00:15:43.610 --> 00:15:47.370 world at large and because it is a situation right now. 259 00:15:47.370 --> 00:15:50.410 But and it always has been. But in the same way, I can't I can't 260 00:15:50.410 --> 00:15:53.995 fully understand the radical nature of Jesus' 261 00:15:55.015 --> 00:15:58.855 experience and conversation with the woman at the well without knowing the 262 00:15:58.855 --> 00:16:02.455 cultural context between Jews and Samaritans, like and what was 263 00:16:02.455 --> 00:16:06.280 happening at that time and how those two people groups 264 00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:10.040 were living together and why they hated each other. And so that 265 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:13.960 it's a great it's a great story without knowing that. When you know 266 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:17.720 the cultural context, it just ups the ante so much more. I 267 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:21.100 mean, I think about the phrase American Christianity. 268 00:16:22.315 --> 00:16:25.915 Like, we you and I, immediately, when we hear that, we probably think of 269 00:16:25.915 --> 00:16:29.515 vastly different things, and that means a million things to a 1000000 people. It means 270 00:16:29.515 --> 00:16:33.035 a 1000000 things on depending on where you say it on the time line. It 271 00:16:33.035 --> 00:16:36.680 could have meant, you know, puritanical values. It could have meant 272 00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:40.440 temperance. It could have meant the Jesus move is from the sixties or 273 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:44.200 the moral majority of the seventies. It it it means something completely 274 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:47.740 different now, but we can't fully I don't think we can fully understand the nuances 275 00:16:48.635 --> 00:16:52.075 outside of the cultural context. I think about, you know, 276 00:16:52.075 --> 00:16:55.835 knowing where the people of Israel were in their national 277 00:16:55.835 --> 00:16:59.455 history as far as exile or powerful kingdom 278 00:16:59.595 --> 00:17:03.035 or who was you know, was this before the split or after the split? It 279 00:17:03.035 --> 00:17:06.690 informs the way you read some of that old testament. It helps you understand 280 00:17:06.690 --> 00:17:10.230 it. And the culture, what was happening around them, it played a role 281 00:17:10.770 --> 00:17:14.609 in the whole purpose of disseminating that information. That was it 282 00:17:14.609 --> 00:17:18.450 was response to how they were experiencing God within that culture. And 283 00:17:18.450 --> 00:17:21.694 I don't think that's the entire crux of how we read it. Just like we 284 00:17:21.694 --> 00:17:25.454 can't let culture around us be the only thing that 285 00:17:25.454 --> 00:17:29.135 transforms our faith. You know, but I I I do think it's 286 00:17:29.135 --> 00:17:32.909 it's important, and it's, you know, it's also fun to cast 287 00:17:32.909 --> 00:17:36.669 Zac Efron as Joseph. That's fun for me. I enjoyed that. As a 288 00:17:36.669 --> 00:17:40.510 High School Musical, fan, that's important to me. Yeah. Well, 289 00:17:40.510 --> 00:17:44.110 I mean, he can handle the hard parts in the songs. Right? Exactly. That's what 290 00:17:44.110 --> 00:17:47.695 I'm saying. I can't detach it from maybe the 291 00:17:47.695 --> 00:17:51.455 Technicolor dream campaign. Yes. Absolutely. And I frankly, I would I would see Zac 292 00:17:51.455 --> 00:17:55.054 Effron in that as well. I'm just wondering, like, what do the production meetings look 293 00:17:55.054 --> 00:17:58.195 like when you all are deciding this? Like, do they get really heated? 294 00:17:58.735 --> 00:18:02.390 Sometimes. Sometimes they do. Yeah. Absolutely. We all have very strong 295 00:18:02.390 --> 00:18:05.770 opinions about who should be playing who. But yeah. 296 00:18:06.710 --> 00:18:10.230 You do come into the podcast as you've mentioned, like, as the 297 00:18:10.230 --> 00:18:13.685 resident bible scholar. So there there there can be a mindset that you're 298 00:18:13.685 --> 00:18:17.145 entering into that space with this mindset of authority. 299 00:18:17.525 --> 00:18:21.145 Like you were there to disseminate information, but have there been some 300 00:18:21.605 --> 00:18:25.305 instances in which the, that process of podcasting 301 00:18:25.525 --> 00:18:28.679 and having those conversations has really kind of overturned 302 00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:32.440 something within your own mind? Well, I think about our 303 00:18:32.740 --> 00:18:36.500 Esther season. And, you 304 00:18:36.500 --> 00:18:40.304 know, Jamie, one of my cohosts, when we were doing the Esther season, she 305 00:18:40.304 --> 00:18:43.904 she was she's very attached to the book of Esther. She's like, it's the 306 00:18:43.904 --> 00:18:47.745 only one we have with a lady. Like, we've gotta protect it at all 307 00:18:47.745 --> 00:18:51.585 costs. And so as I was sharing, hey. There are some 308 00:18:51.585 --> 00:18:55.410 scholars who think this is essentially, kind 309 00:18:55.410 --> 00:18:59.170 of almost like a Hamilton sort of a vibe. Yes. It's based 310 00:18:59.170 --> 00:19:02.770 in history. It's historical fiction almost. That 311 00:19:02.770 --> 00:19:06.425 was enormously upsetting to her and kind of helping 312 00:19:06.725 --> 00:19:10.405 and walking her through, and by default, our listeners as 313 00:19:10.405 --> 00:19:13.945 well, to go, okay. Just because 314 00:19:14.085 --> 00:19:17.700 it's historical fiction doesn't mean there's not truth in it. It doesn't mean there's 315 00:19:18.100 --> 00:19:21.940 not value in it. It doesn't necessarily make it untrue. It's 316 00:19:21.940 --> 00:19:25.159 just not the historical document that you thought it was. 317 00:19:25.620 --> 00:19:29.299 And I think that that was a hard place for me to 318 00:19:29.299 --> 00:19:33.065 be, you know, before we did the Esther season because I was like, 319 00:19:33.125 --> 00:19:36.804 wait. If there are people who don't think that Adam was real, hold on. 320 00:19:36.804 --> 00:19:40.325 Hold on just a second. You know? What that and so wanting to 321 00:19:40.325 --> 00:19:43.924 understand that, seeing that different 322 00:19:43.924 --> 00:19:45.342 people think like, faithful people from different context think about things in a different way, 323 00:19:45.342 --> 00:19:49.050 and that doesn't necessarily think about things in 324 00:19:49.050 --> 00:19:52.730 a different way, and that doesn't necessarily mean that they're wrong or bad or 325 00:19:52.730 --> 00:19:56.410 heretical. It just means that they're coming at it from a different angle. And I 326 00:19:56.410 --> 00:20:00.090 think kind of learning to hold some of 327 00:20:00.090 --> 00:20:03.475 that to go and also being the resident bible 328 00:20:03.475 --> 00:20:07.315 scholar just it helped me be comfortable with being wrong, frankly, 329 00:20:07.315 --> 00:20:11.075 because there's no there's no way I think people want those 330 00:20:11.315 --> 00:20:15.155 that certainty, that answer about this is what it means. This 331 00:20:15.155 --> 00:20:18.899 is what the scripture means. This is why we have this one right here, 332 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:23.120 but that's that's not I don't know that that exists. Maybe 333 00:20:23.120 --> 00:20:26.720 for 5 things in the bible, maybe, but I think the rest of 334 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.259 it, you know, our our Jewish leaders, 335 00:20:30.615 --> 00:20:34.375 cousins, they they have such a they place such 336 00:20:34.375 --> 00:20:38.055 a value on asking questions that don't 337 00:20:38.055 --> 00:20:41.575 necessarily get answered, and we we don't do 338 00:20:41.575 --> 00:20:44.280 that. We do not I mean, there's that whole concept 339 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.760 in Judaism about turning the gym of scripture, of 340 00:20:48.760 --> 00:20:52.540 looking at it from many different angles and seeing all the facets 341 00:20:52.840 --> 00:20:56.680 and being okay with the fact that there are many different facets to it, 342 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.515 and that's something that really makes us uncomfortable. So 343 00:21:00.515 --> 00:21:04.275 that Ruth kind of upset your, your mindset in a way and and 344 00:21:04.275 --> 00:21:08.055 not being able to answer everything is and when we do kind of 345 00:21:08.115 --> 00:21:11.655 represent ourselves as pastoral presences in the in the public 346 00:21:11.870 --> 00:21:15.470 sphere. Sometimes there there can be a, well, a 347 00:21:15.470 --> 00:21:19.010 fear of being asked the the questions that, you know, we can't 348 00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:22.910 offer the answers to. With that in mind, is 349 00:21:22.910 --> 00:21:26.450 there a specific story in the bible or a character 350 00:21:26.590 --> 00:21:30.405 that you're afraid might come up in a season of, like, I don't Oh, I 351 00:21:30.597 --> 00:21:34.005 I don't feel comfortable with that one. I will never touch Revelation, not in a 352 00:21:34.005 --> 00:21:37.845 1000000 years. There's no chance I will ever do that. It is 353 00:21:37.845 --> 00:21:41.605 so it's fraught with so much. I guess, I don't wanna 354 00:21:41.605 --> 00:21:45.029 say it's not bias really, but people already have made up their minds 355 00:21:45.250 --> 00:21:48.929 about what it is or it's like, specifically the back 356 00:21:48.929 --> 00:21:52.529 half. And so that is something that I I never 357 00:21:52.529 --> 00:21:55.669 wanna touch ever in my whole life. 358 00:21:55.970 --> 00:21:59.265 Well, tell me about what's going on in the back half that Well, there's just 359 00:21:59.424 --> 00:22:02.945 I mean, you know, is it is it a letter to the 360 00:22:02.945 --> 00:22:06.705 churches that talks about the Roman empire and how to stand against it and 361 00:22:06.705 --> 00:22:10.385 what's happening, or is it is it for the end times? Like, they're 362 00:22:10.544 --> 00:22:14.009 it's just too fraught for me personally. 363 00:22:14.230 --> 00:22:17.210 I, I don't, I don't care necessarily 364 00:22:17.669 --> 00:22:21.370 about whether I'm gonna be taken up in a cloud before 365 00:22:21.669 --> 00:22:25.509 or after. I don't that's that doesn't really have much bearing on my 366 00:22:25.509 --> 00:22:29.095 faith, and when you try to talk about revelation to other 367 00:22:29.395 --> 00:22:32.455 people, they have already decided how they feel about it or 368 00:22:32.755 --> 00:22:36.355 they're they're just, like, this is too complicated, and we've put 369 00:22:36.595 --> 00:22:40.410 there's just so much that has been placed on it that 370 00:22:40.410 --> 00:22:43.890 it it's almost it's rendered it's 371 00:22:43.890 --> 00:22:47.730 rendered meaningless in a way because people have 372 00:22:47.730 --> 00:22:51.490 put the pressure on it to be something that I don't know that 373 00:22:51.490 --> 00:22:55.145 it is. And, and listen, I'm I'm a fan of that that last chapter. 374 00:22:55.205 --> 00:22:58.725 It's a banger. He went all in on that, and I love it. 375 00:22:58.725 --> 00:23:02.565 But people want this okay. This is the antichrist and this is the 376 00:23:02.565 --> 00:23:04.965 mark of the beast and this is the whore of Babylon, and it's like, I 377 00:23:04.965 --> 00:23:07.765 don't I don't know that that I don't know that that's a thing, and I 378 00:23:07.765 --> 00:23:09.785 think that's hard. I was having 379 00:23:15.100 --> 00:23:18.860 end goal of faith that, sometimes we adopt 380 00:23:18.860 --> 00:23:22.620 this mindset of kind of like backing our way into heaven, just 381 00:23:22.620 --> 00:23:26.415 because we're trying to avoid, you know, this is a very kind 382 00:23:26.415 --> 00:23:30.174 of binary view of the afterlife, but you know, whether heaven 383 00:23:30.174 --> 00:23:33.934 or eternal conscious torment in hell, you know, like we want to avoid 384 00:23:33.934 --> 00:23:37.620 that as well. And so, yeah, like, oh, well then our alternative is just 385 00:23:37.700 --> 00:23:40.740 to kinda be in heaven. In the same way, we can kinda look at Revelation 386 00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:44.360 of being like, well, I wanna avoid being left behind. Exactly. Binary 387 00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:48.660 kind of way of looking at it. So with that comes the the 388 00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:51.765 question we'll start with this. When you were growing up, did you fear being left 389 00:23:51.765 --> 00:23:55.524 behind? Oh my gosh. Yes. K. Listen. Well, really, let me 390 00:23:55.524 --> 00:23:58.804 just be honest with you, Ryan. I just really wanted to be able to have 391 00:23:58.804 --> 00:24:02.645 sex before Jesus came back. That's really what I was concerned about. 392 00:24:02.645 --> 00:24:06.399 So I did have a small note card next to my bed that was like, 393 00:24:06.399 --> 00:24:10.240 the rapture's happening today because there's that no one knows the time, 394 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:14.080 and I was like, I'm a outsmart God and I'm a say every day is 395 00:24:14.080 --> 00:24:15.620 the day so he can't come. 396 00:24:18.159 --> 00:24:21.895 So, yes, I I mean, that was such a huge part. Like, 397 00:24:21.895 --> 00:24:25.735 I wish we'd all been ready. I mean, that DC Talks song, you know, 398 00:24:25.735 --> 00:24:29.335 on Jesus freak was transformative to me, and I was like, I have 399 00:24:29.335 --> 00:24:33.120 to I have to be ready at any point. What if I'm 400 00:24:33.120 --> 00:24:36.720 thinking about something bad? What if I'm being mean to someone? What if I'm what 401 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:40.240 if I'm, you know, asking an inappropriate question or a question that someone 402 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:44.000 deems heretical? Is that am I still gonna be able to go? And 403 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.745 you put and that's that's putting so much of the focus on us and 404 00:24:47.745 --> 00:24:51.365 our behavior and none of it on the saving 405 00:24:51.665 --> 00:24:55.045 grace of Jesus Christ, but we tend to do that often. 406 00:24:55.585 --> 00:24:58.865 I do need to throw in a little caveat here that, you know, we're talking 407 00:24:58.865 --> 00:25:02.670 about some ideas around revelation. Like, the rapture is not 408 00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:06.350 specifically within revelation. And that's also like a like, you know, 409 00:25:06.350 --> 00:25:09.730 there's all of the ways that that whole eschatology 410 00:25:10.430 --> 00:25:13.012 was created by someone who fell off a horse and had a traumatic brain injury. 411 00:25:13.012 --> 00:25:15.345 So, you know, you you go learning about that. You're like, okay. Injury. So, you 412 00:25:15.345 --> 00:25:19.025 know, you you go learning about that, you're like, okay. Is this actually 413 00:25:19.025 --> 00:25:22.525 the thing? And am I am I seriously going 414 00:25:23.225 --> 00:25:26.940 to reconsider something that, obviously, a lot of really smart 415 00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:30.240 people agree upon, I mean, I think that is very 416 00:25:30.700 --> 00:25:33.760 terrifying. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. 417 00:25:34.779 --> 00:25:38.559 So for the the person who is kind of facing those questions 418 00:25:38.620 --> 00:25:42.125 and and feeling that fear, like, oh, is this gonna lead me away from my 419 00:25:42.125 --> 00:25:45.905 community? Is it gonna lead me away from my faith? Do you have some 420 00:25:45.965 --> 00:25:49.565 words of hope? Yeah. You know, I've I've I 421 00:25:49.725 --> 00:25:53.430 like, there's just such a tenderness in me for, for that, and, 422 00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:55.610 and I wanna be so gentle because 423 00:25:57.270 --> 00:26:00.730 I think pretending you don't have questions or fearing 424 00:26:01.030 --> 00:26:04.710 the answers to questions, it's not gonna bring you any kind 425 00:26:04.710 --> 00:26:08.414 of peace and or maybe it will bring you peace, but it's maybe a 426 00:26:08.414 --> 00:26:12.174 false sense. I think allegiance to a faith that you've not 427 00:26:12.174 --> 00:26:15.774 worked through or started to investigate is 428 00:26:15.774 --> 00:26:19.455 allegiance to a facade, to fluff. And I don't even mean you have to 429 00:26:19.455 --> 00:26:22.990 land in a different place than when you started, but is it yours? 430 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:26.970 Because at the end of the day, this is your relationship with Jesus. 431 00:26:26.970 --> 00:26:30.570 This is your sitting in your own belovedness. What does that do to you? What 432 00:26:30.570 --> 00:26:33.289 does that do to your life? And how does that it's it's yours, and it's 433 00:26:33.289 --> 00:26:36.735 a partnership with you and holy spirit and a partnership 434 00:26:37.275 --> 00:26:40.635 with you and holy spirit, and that's not something that anyone else should be 435 00:26:40.635 --> 00:26:44.395 able you you shouldn't outsource that, I don't 436 00:26:44.395 --> 00:26:47.615 think. I I don't like saying shoulds and shouldn'ts, but 437 00:26:48.635 --> 00:26:52.380 it is, I think, so hard to take those first 438 00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:56.140 steps because it feels so scary, and you feel like you're wrong 439 00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:59.980 and you're you're bad and but those things are not true. We 440 00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:03.495 have scripture is full of people who asked questions. 441 00:27:04.115 --> 00:27:07.635 There's I mean, I would say that is the tradition of 442 00:27:07.635 --> 00:27:10.995 Christianity, but we forget that. We 443 00:27:10.995 --> 00:27:14.674 forget that, you know, the reformation let's take the 444 00:27:14.674 --> 00:27:18.309 reformation for example. Like, that was there was there 445 00:27:18.309 --> 00:27:22.150 were 95 essentially questions that started that, you know, 446 00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:25.830 and they were more statements, but in a in a sense, they were questions and 447 00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:29.715 Yeah. I think I think it just it feels so 448 00:27:29.794 --> 00:27:33.554 scary because we really, really, really love certainty, and 449 00:27:33.554 --> 00:27:37.395 it's exhausting to think about, do I have to if I pull this 450 00:27:37.395 --> 00:27:41.235 thread, is the whole sweater gonna come undone? Well, Erin, thank you. The book 451 00:27:41.235 --> 00:27:44.534 is I've Got Questions. It's coming out February 452 00:27:44.755 --> 00:27:48.470 4th I think, of 2025. Cool. Where is 453 00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:52.250 a convenient spot for people who have questions about 454 00:27:52.310 --> 00:27:56.150 Erin Moon to find some information? Well, I I have a 455 00:27:56.150 --> 00:27:59.175 website, erinhmoon.com. I'm on substack, 456 00:27:59.575 --> 00:28:03.115 aaronhmoon.com/substack or no. Aaronhmoon.substack.com. 457 00:28:04.935 --> 00:28:08.775 That's what it is. And I'm on Instagram at aaronhmoon. So if you are 458 00:28:08.775 --> 00:28:12.295 looking for me, it's probably Aaron h Moon. Cool. And I do 459 00:28:12.295 --> 00:28:15.880 wanna just lift up, like, the the lang it's a deep 460 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.500 theological book, but the language is so accessible. Oh, thank you. The anecdotes 461 00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:23.320 are, you know, on point. Like, we all get it. So Thank you. That means 462 00:28:23.320 --> 00:28:27.159 a lot to me. I appreciate that. Cool. Well, Erin, thank you for spending 463 00:28:27.159 --> 00:28:30.894 this time with us and for answering questions. Yes, absolutely. Thank 464 00:28:30.894 --> 00:28:34.575 you for having me. Thanks for joining us for this episode of compass 465 00:28:34.575 --> 00:28:38.254 finding spirituality in the everyday. If you'd like to learn more 466 00:28:38.254 --> 00:28:41.875 about our conversation with Erin Moon or explore other episodes, 467 00:28:42.495 --> 00:28:45.850 visit umc.org slash compass, 468 00:28:46.790 --> 00:28:50.410 where you're gonna find episode notes and our full library 469 00:28:50.630 --> 00:28:54.010 of content. If you wanna check out another episode, 470 00:28:54.070 --> 00:28:57.750 episode 147 with Matthew Ian Fleming is 471 00:28:57.750 --> 00:29:01.365 a great follow-up on this episode since Matthew leads us into the 472 00:29:01.365 --> 00:29:04.965 modern relevance of revelation and all that kind of 473 00:29:04.965 --> 00:29:08.645 stuff. It's really good. Episode 137 is a 474 00:29:08.645 --> 00:29:12.389 really popular one that fits with this episode as well. 475 00:29:12.389 --> 00:29:16.169 That episode with Reverend Bruce Reyes Chau 476 00:29:16.789 --> 00:29:20.409 gets us talking about clarifying your own personal 477 00:29:20.629 --> 00:29:24.305 theological beliefs. This podcast is made possible 478 00:29:24.305 --> 00:29:27.985 by the talented team at United Methodist Communications. If 479 00:29:27.985 --> 00:29:31.605 you've enjoyed today's episode, please help others 480 00:29:31.665 --> 00:29:35.185 find us by subscribing to compass wherever you get your podcasts. 481 00:29:35.185 --> 00:29:38.850 And if you have a moment, leave a rating and review, 482 00:29:38.909 --> 00:29:42.669 which helps reach more people seeking to find spirituality in 483 00:29:42.669 --> 00:29:46.450 their everyday lives. Until next time, keep exploring 484 00:29:46.590 --> 00:29:49.570 your spiritual journey with curiosity and openness. 485 00:29:50.190 --> 00:29:50.690 Peace.