WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:04.760 Welcome to Compass. Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. I'm your host, 2 00:00:04.760 --> 00:00:08.280 Ryan Dunn. This podcast often provides a 3 00:00:08.280 --> 00:00:11.680 platform for voices and ideas around social 4 00:00:11.680 --> 00:00:15.200 justice. This would include topics like housing, income 5 00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.480 equality, LGBTQ advocacy, 6 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:22.080 ending racism, and more. We're in a period 7 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:26.240 where it feels like in our context in the United States, 8 00:00:26.680 --> 00:00:30.480 we're losing progress on several of those issues. For 9 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:34.240 me, that introduces a bit of a theological dilemma because I hold 10 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:37.880 to the idea that, as MLK put it, the arc of justice 11 00:00:38.040 --> 00:00:41.800 is always advancing. And maybe it is 12 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.600 overall. But it's disheartening when the few steps 13 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.920 of progress which have really been witnessed over the last several years 14 00:00:49.480 --> 00:00:52.760 are met with reactive steps backwards. When 15 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:56.760 LGBTQ voices are marginalized through public 16 00:00:56.760 --> 00:01:00.300 policy, when national priorities favor the 17 00:01:00.300 --> 00:01:03.780 rich over the unhoused, when racist rhetoric 18 00:01:03.860 --> 00:01:07.140 motivates legislation to define who is acceptable 19 00:01:07.460 --> 00:01:10.900 and who is not, and especially then, when those who are labeled as 20 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:14.500 outsiders are moved into concentration camps. 21 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:18.580 My friend, Reverend Ingrid McIntyre is heavily 22 00:01:18.660 --> 00:01:22.180 engaged in activism and advocacy around these issues 23 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:26.040 in Nashville, Tennessee. It's emotional work, and while 24 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:29.640 I know Ingrid to be a high energy person, I wondered how these 25 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:33.560 steps backwards may be affecting her and 26 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:37.360 advocates like her and also what provides fuel for 27 00:01:37.360 --> 00:01:40.640 the continued work with all these confrontations and public 28 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:44.400 actions. So I went over to our little church in Nashville 29 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:48.080 and talked with Ingrid about her journey into activism and 30 00:01:48.080 --> 00:01:51.650 how being an activist and a pastor correlate and what's 31 00:01:51.650 --> 00:01:55.250 fueling her hope. Whether you're curious about grassroots 32 00:01:55.250 --> 00:01:59.050 organizing, passionate about social justice, or 33 00:01:59.050 --> 00:02:02.650 seeking some inspiration for your own spiritual journey, 34 00:02:02.890 --> 00:02:06.730 this episode takes a look at what it means to live out faith in 35 00:02:06.730 --> 00:02:10.290 real, tangible ways. So let's get into it 36 00:02:10.290 --> 00:02:13.730 here on Compass. All right, 37 00:02:13.730 --> 00:02:17.490 Ingrid, we've known each other a while, but in the make believe world of 38 00:02:17.490 --> 00:02:20.890 us just meeting, we're at a party and having the normal kind of 39 00:02:21.350 --> 00:02:23.910 chit chat conversation of like, oh, what do you do? 40 00:02:25.110 --> 00:02:26.550 How do you describe what you do. 41 00:02:28.870 --> 00:02:32.710 At those places? It makes me a little nervous to say what I do. Sometimes 42 00:02:32.950 --> 00:02:36.550 it freaks people out maybe a little bit. But 43 00:02:37.430 --> 00:02:40.950 I would say that I'm a pastor in the United Methodist Church 44 00:02:41.510 --> 00:02:44.870 and that I'm an organizer in our community 45 00:02:45.910 --> 00:02:49.600 around issues that impact the community 46 00:02:49.760 --> 00:02:53.440 and impact individuals mostly adversely. Right. 47 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:57.040 So issues of justice where I feel like 48 00:02:57.040 --> 00:03:00.800 maybe justice is lacking. Yeah. How do you see those two roles 49 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:04.320 overlapping? I mean, it's a 50 00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:07.880 natural fit as far as I'm concerned. I think 51 00:03:07.880 --> 00:03:11.200 that the values of Jesus and the values that Jesus 52 00:03:11.200 --> 00:03:15.010 lived are very much in line with 53 00:03:15.170 --> 00:03:19.010 what it looks like to have A just community. And 54 00:03:19.090 --> 00:03:22.850 so I feel like living those 55 00:03:23.330 --> 00:03:26.290 values out in real time and 56 00:03:27.730 --> 00:03:31.010 doing my best to embody the life of Jesus. 57 00:03:31.730 --> 00:03:35.450 The embodiment piece is really important to me more than the 58 00:03:35.450 --> 00:03:39.090 word. So, yeah, I think it's a pretty good 59 00:03:39.090 --> 00:03:42.130 fit. I mean, I might say that Jesus was a 60 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.640 pastor and a community organizer. Maybe not a pastor in the United 61 00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:50.120 Methodist Church, but Jes. You know, I think the 62 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.400 church. Right, Jes. Yeah, but. 63 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:57.680 But yeah. So I think that those two things go hand in 64 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:01.520 hand pretty well. Yeah. What does a. A week look like for 65 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:05.120 you then? Like, how do you spend your time walking 66 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:06.760 between those two roles? 67 00:04:09.190 --> 00:04:12.910 It's a lot. You know, this week has several folks in our 68 00:04:12.910 --> 00:04:16.390 congregation who are in the hospital and so 69 00:04:16.550 --> 00:04:19.110 visiting hospitals. But also 70 00:04:19.910 --> 00:04:23.710 Elon Musk has just said he's going to make 71 00:04:23.710 --> 00:04:27.230 a land grab here in Tennessee, particularly here in 72 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:31.070 Nashville, specifically in a black and brown 73 00:04:31.070 --> 00:04:34.630 neighborhood that has historically been underserved. 74 00:04:34.710 --> 00:04:38.320 And so it was announced and 75 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:42.240 passed in less than three days. And 76 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.600 that doesn't feel like transparency. Right. So showing up in public 77 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.880 spaces and saying, where the people. 78 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:53.040 Where are the people's voices in this? Right. It was. Didn't have 79 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.640 anything to do with people. Had to do with rich white men stealing land again. 80 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:01.120 Again. Right. So being present in that space, 81 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.240 as a person of faith, it's important to me that, 82 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:09.300 that folks know that people of faith are not 83 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:13.140 happy with some of the things that are going on in our. In our 84 00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:16.540 community these days. So when you say being present in that space, 85 00:05:17.900 --> 00:05:21.620 what does that mean? So I went to Cordell hall this morning, which is 86 00:05:21.620 --> 00:05:25.300 our state office building. It's where. It's next door to 87 00:05:25.300 --> 00:05:28.780 the Capitol. Okay. It's where all the legislators 88 00:05:28.860 --> 00:05:32.620 offices are and it's where the committee, 89 00:05:32.700 --> 00:05:36.300 like the House committee rooms and the Senate committee rooms are. So this was 90 00:05:36.540 --> 00:05:40.240 a meeting that was held in House 91 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.800 hearing room three this morning. So I 92 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:47.520 showed up holding a sign. My sign 93 00:05:47.520 --> 00:05:50.680 said rich white men stealing land again. 94 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.040 And just wanted to show up in community so that 95 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:58.720 it's not just rich, powerful or 96 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.280 elected people that are being heard, but to make sure that the 97 00:06:02.280 --> 00:06:06.120 community is being heard. And to witness. Right. Even just to 98 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:09.670 be a witness, to say, I'm watching these 99 00:06:09.830 --> 00:06:13.430 four rich white men men make this decision this 100 00:06:13.430 --> 00:06:16.550 morning on behalf of the people of Tennessee. When 101 00:06:16.950 --> 00:06:20.670 Tennessee did not get to weigh in, not even most 102 00:06:20.670 --> 00:06:23.990 of the representatives in the state of Tennessee got to weigh in. Right. 103 00:06:24.630 --> 00:06:28.150 A lot of them found out about this at the same time that the general 104 00:06:28.150 --> 00:06:31.510 public did. So to me, that Feels a little sneaky. 105 00:06:33.030 --> 00:06:36.030 And, you know, we can't even get 106 00:06:36.670 --> 00:06:40.430 the state to give us free land for affordable housing 107 00:06:40.990 --> 00:06:44.670 when there are thousands of people without housing yet they will give it 108 00:06:44.670 --> 00:06:47.630 away to literally the richest man in the United States 109 00:06:48.670 --> 00:06:52.470 to do something that's not going to help the people of Nashville. Right. 110 00:06:52.470 --> 00:06:55.870 It'll help the. It'll help maybe 111 00:06:55.870 --> 00:06:59.710 capitalism, maybe with a tunnel from 112 00:07:00.530 --> 00:07:04.250 the airport straight into downtown. But, you know, that's not 113 00:07:04.250 --> 00:07:07.890 going to help individuals who live in Nashville, people who 114 00:07:08.450 --> 00:07:12.090 are going to have to pay for the upkeep of 115 00:07:12.090 --> 00:07:15.890 this, who pay for the ambulances and the fire trucks 116 00:07:15.890 --> 00:07:19.570 that go down there when Teslas explode or when people get stuck 117 00:07:19.570 --> 00:07:22.970 or when there's a flood, you know, like we had in 118 00:07:22.970 --> 00:07:26.810 2010, and it floods. Like what? You know, all these things 119 00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:30.490 are things that we don't know anything about. So just holding 120 00:07:30.490 --> 00:07:34.030 folks accountable, whatever the situation is, that just happened to be what it was 121 00:07:34.030 --> 00:07:37.790 this morning. Okay. What led you towards doing 122 00:07:37.790 --> 00:07:41.470 this kind of work? Were you a. A pastor who was 123 00:07:41.470 --> 00:07:44.510 then suddenly. Well, not suddenly, but felt 124 00:07:45.070 --> 00:07:48.310 a call into that work, or was it the other way around, like you were 125 00:07:48.310 --> 00:07:51.870 doing the activism kind of work? And like, I think there's something 126 00:07:51.870 --> 00:07:55.550 speaking to my soul. Yeah. Well, I'm a pk, right? 127 00:07:55.790 --> 00:07:59.350 So that's part of it. That's just part of my context. Yeah. That's a preacher's 128 00:07:59.350 --> 00:08:02.990 kid. Yeah. Anybody or theological, 129 00:08:03.610 --> 00:08:07.410 as some people like to say. I'm not that. I don't think I'm there. I 130 00:08:07.410 --> 00:08:09.050 think I'm just a pk. But 131 00:08:11.050 --> 00:08:14.450 I've known for a long time that my work is along the 132 00:08:14.450 --> 00:08:18.170 margins. It's just where I have felt called for a very long time. 133 00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:21.930 I mean, probably since before, but at least since eighth grade. That's been very 134 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:25.610 clear to me. And so oftentimes, 135 00:08:26.010 --> 00:08:28.410 can we. What happened in eighth grade? 136 00:08:30.650 --> 00:08:34.460 Was there an aha moment? And you're like, oh, no. I was 137 00:08:34.460 --> 00:08:38.060 staying with my cousin who I adore 138 00:08:38.060 --> 00:08:41.860 and didn't want to go home. It was a summer vacation, and 139 00:08:41.860 --> 00:08:44.860 I didn't want to leave. We didn't want to leave each other. And she was 140 00:08:44.860 --> 00:08:48.620 leaving to go to Appalachia Service Project the next day, and 141 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:53.140 I couldn't go. And I was too young, like a year too 142 00:08:53.140 --> 00:08:56.940 young maybe to go. And so thank 143 00:08:56.940 --> 00:09:00.220 goodness I know the executive director of Appalachia Service Project yet. 144 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:05.120 Be mad, Melissa. But I lied on my form and said that I was a 145 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:08.440 year older than I was so that I could go with my cousin to 146 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:12.160 Appalachia and Her church was in Indiana, and I lived in 147 00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:15.920 Tennessee, but we were serving in Tennessee. So La Follette, Tennessee, 148 00:09:15.920 --> 00:09:19.760 was the first place that I served with the Appalachian Service 149 00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:23.400 Project and knew in that moment that people weren't being 150 00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:26.880 treated fairly. Right. People weren't 151 00:09:27.390 --> 00:09:31.190 receiving the. Just end of the stick, if 152 00:09:31.190 --> 00:09:34.750 you would. And it bothered me a lot. 153 00:09:35.150 --> 00:09:38.750 I knew that this was the area that my family came out of, 154 00:09:40.110 --> 00:09:43.950 Appalachia. Right. And I knew that, 155 00:09:44.910 --> 00:09:48.430 you know, my dad's grandparents didn't have running water and. 156 00:09:49.070 --> 00:09:52.870 Or a restroom in their house. Right. And so being in and 157 00:09:52.870 --> 00:09:56.540 among folks who were 158 00:09:56.540 --> 00:10:00.140 perpetually left out of an economic 159 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:03.580 equation felt like a personal 160 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:06.620 assault. And so just kept 161 00:10:07.900 --> 00:10:11.580 sort of down that road and realized that, oh, there are plenty of more 162 00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:13.980 people who are being treated even worse. Right. 163 00:10:16.540 --> 00:10:20.100 Who things are not just for. Who 164 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:23.400 have, you know, people whose ancestors were 165 00:10:23.400 --> 00:10:27.120 enslaved, people whose ancestors land was stolen 166 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.880 from, people who have been stolen, 167 00:10:30.880 --> 00:10:34.080 you know, from. From homelands and things like that. 168 00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:38.720 So just kept learning more and more about our history and, like, what 169 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:42.200 humans can do. That. That doesn't 170 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:45.920 reflect love. Right. To me, but that reflects 171 00:10:45.920 --> 00:10:49.750 greed. And so being a voice in the midst 172 00:10:49.750 --> 00:10:52.670 of that has been important to me for a long time. 173 00:10:53.550 --> 00:10:56.110 And so I guess the activism probably came 174 00:10:59.630 --> 00:11:02.830 first in terms of thinking this is what I want to do. But 175 00:11:03.150 --> 00:11:06.990 certainly I've had a bedrock of faith since, you 176 00:11:06.990 --> 00:11:10.030 know, 1976. 177 00:11:12.910 --> 00:11:16.200 So as you were entering your 178 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.800 adult life, were there. 179 00:11:20.040 --> 00:11:23.640 Were you looking for jobs in the activism space? Were you 180 00:11:24.040 --> 00:11:27.760 looking for jobs in the clerical space? Out of that? Yeah, 181 00:11:27.760 --> 00:11:29.640 no, neither. I 182 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:36.240 honestly don't know. I think I went to college really not 183 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:40.000 knowing. Yeah, sure. You know, I was. For once in 184 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.040 my life, I think I was just, like, doing the thing. You'Re supposed to do. 185 00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:46.270 Right. Which is not. This will give me the opportunities to do whatever. 186 00:11:47.060 --> 00:11:50.780 That's not my typical thing is to just do, you know, go along to get 187 00:11:50.780 --> 00:11:54.540 along. But I think maybe I was at that point go, you know, 188 00:11:54.540 --> 00:11:58.100 going to college even. I mean, I majored in communications and 189 00:11:58.100 --> 00:12:01.900 religion, but I didn't know really what that meant for 190 00:12:01.900 --> 00:12:05.740 me. And so I did start 191 00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:09.460 working in the church some, but continued to 192 00:12:09.460 --> 00:12:13.260 be called to that intersection of faith and 193 00:12:13.260 --> 00:12:16.320 politics, which is why I went to Wesley Seminary right 194 00:12:17.280 --> 00:12:21.120 here in Nashville. But Wesley really called to me 195 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.720 because of where it is that it's in D.C. in the heart. 196 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.560 Yeah. Wesley's in the heart of D.C. and so to be able to be 197 00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:32.240 in that space and soak up what that environment was giving, 198 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:37.920 you know, taught me a Lot. And I 199 00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:41.760 had to. I watched people be brave a lot in that space. I 200 00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:45.520 haven't always been super brave in that space, and I don't know, I guess I'm 201 00:12:45.520 --> 00:12:48.940 brave in that space now, but 202 00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:52.780 still fearful. Right? It doesn't. I don't think that bravery takes 203 00:12:52.780 --> 00:12:55.980 your fear away necessarily. Okay. It just 204 00:12:56.380 --> 00:12:59.740 takes your. I'm just 205 00:12:59.980 --> 00:13:03.420 unwilling to be silent or 206 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:07.020 invisible while 207 00:13:07.340 --> 00:13:10.700 people with power just run over 208 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:14.470 folks. So I just can't. I would rather 209 00:13:14.470 --> 00:13:17.430 be scared and standing up 210 00:13:18.390 --> 00:13:18.790 than, 211 00:13:22.550 --> 00:13:25.510 I guess, comfortable and quiet. 212 00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:30.950 That's probably one thing that no one would ever describe me 213 00:13:30.950 --> 00:13:33.110 as, comfortable and quiet. 214 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:42.280 So as you began to 215 00:13:42.280 --> 00:13:46.000 discern a sense of calling, were there certain events that really kind 216 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.440 of moved you into a particular direction? 217 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.840 Yeah, I still think that, like, you know, again, housing 218 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.640 was what, you know, certainly Appalachia service project 219 00:13:57.640 --> 00:14:01.120 works on housing. Some 220 00:14:01.760 --> 00:14:05.360 dear, dear family friends had been a part of, like, homeless 221 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:08.640 ministries for their whole lives, working in Catholic Worker houses, 222 00:14:09.740 --> 00:14:13.500 which I learned a lot from as well. And that was really moving 223 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:16.860 to me. The 224 00:14:17.340 --> 00:14:21.100 One thing in D.C. you know, when we were there or 225 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:24.060 when I was there is when the 226 00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:28.780 genocide in the Sudan was happening. I mean, not that 227 00:14:28.780 --> 00:14:32.620 things are still not great there. I mean, things are still not great there, but 228 00:14:32.780 --> 00:14:34.700 that was in the beginning. Right. And so 229 00:14:36.930 --> 00:14:40.570 it just helped me see sort of how people were 230 00:14:40.570 --> 00:14:43.410 responding in general. It was the first time, I think, I was, like, really paying 231 00:14:43.410 --> 00:14:46.810 attention to how people responded to a major 232 00:14:46.810 --> 00:14:50.410 injustice and organizing. Right. 233 00:14:50.410 --> 00:14:54.250 Like actually organizing. Not just saying, oh, man, that's terrible, 234 00:14:54.250 --> 00:14:57.930 but doing something about it. And it's. It 235 00:14:57.930 --> 00:15:01.610 really revs me up, I think. Right. Oh, like, you can do something about 236 00:15:01.610 --> 00:15:05.210 this. You can't. You don't just, like, read the news and 237 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:08.910 complain. You can show up at the. You can 238 00:15:09.070 --> 00:15:11.390 start talking to people. You can, 239 00:15:13.710 --> 00:15:16.990 you know, get your other friends to show up with you. This is 240 00:15:16.990 --> 00:15:20.270 powerful. Right. Our voices matter. 241 00:15:21.390 --> 00:15:25.190 So learning that. And then after I moved back to Nashville in 2010 and the 242 00:15:25.190 --> 00:15:28.910 flood happened, and it was, you know, a 243 00:15:28.910 --> 00:15:32.550 place, tent city that was beloved, that had 244 00:15:32.550 --> 00:15:36.310 flooded. There was not an option to not do something or, you 245 00:15:36.310 --> 00:15:39.740 know, it was not an option to be quiet and comfortable at that moment. Right. 246 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:43.660 People who, you know and loved have lost everything that they've had. They 247 00:15:43.660 --> 00:15:47.500 had. So, yeah, 248 00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:51.300 now's the time. Let's get with it. Right? So that really started a 249 00:15:51.300 --> 00:15:54.860 big push for activism, I think, in my life, 250 00:15:54.940 --> 00:15:58.380 but activism backed up by faith, saying, like, people 251 00:15:58.380 --> 00:16:02.180 deserve more than this. This, like, we were created to be whole and 252 00:16:02.180 --> 00:16:05.900 thriving people, not people have to struggle to find a meal. 253 00:16:05.900 --> 00:16:09.460 Not people have to struggle to get a good night's sleep so that our mental 254 00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:13.280 health is intact. Right. People have to struggle for 255 00:16:13.280 --> 00:16:16.840 their health care or. Or to be 256 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:20.640 in relationship in a healthy way with each 257 00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:24.440 other. So that turned the boat, as 258 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.240 we might say, for me, in a big way, where 259 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.560 I think I just, like, lost it. I, you know, 260 00:16:32.040 --> 00:16:35.640 I lost my willingness for any kind of comfort 261 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:39.690 and quietness, I think, in that space. 262 00:16:39.930 --> 00:16:43.610 And. Yeah. So here we are 15 years 263 00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:47.290 later, and it's just gone downhill or 264 00:16:48.570 --> 00:16:52.330 coasting positive down. And it's funny that 265 00:16:52.410 --> 00:16:56.210 you bring up the. The Sudan and the Darfur was what we were 266 00:16:56.210 --> 00:16:59.970 talking about at the time. I was working in a local church 267 00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:03.210 at that point, and I brought it up with the youth group, and 268 00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:07.580 I had some pushback against that because it felt a little 269 00:17:07.580 --> 00:17:11.060 bit political for some people. Is that 270 00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:15.060 something that you deal with and. Yeah. And how does 271 00:17:15.060 --> 00:17:17.540 that kind of political, 272 00:17:20.260 --> 00:17:22.900 Political speak affect your 273 00:17:23.860 --> 00:17:27.500 congregational relationship? Yeah, you 274 00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:31.300 know, I try to be nonpartisan most of the time, 275 00:17:31.300 --> 00:17:34.980 because to me, what matters is the. Is the 276 00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:38.660 values that we're lifting up. Right. It's these values that I think 277 00:17:38.660 --> 00:17:42.420 are. Are most people of faith's values. Right? It's 278 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:45.900 not just a Christian value. It's not, you know, just a Jewish value. 279 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:49.740 It's not just a Muslim value. Like, we all 280 00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:53.500 hold these values as people of faith for the most 281 00:17:53.500 --> 00:17:55.820 part. Right. Saying that 282 00:17:57.020 --> 00:18:00.780 justice shall roll down. Right. Um, we should 283 00:18:00.780 --> 00:18:04.220 love our neighbors. We take care of the orphan 284 00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:08.380 and the widow. All of these things that we all agree 285 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:12.300 with pretty much from all different faith perspectives 286 00:18:12.300 --> 00:18:16.060 and from a humanitarian perspective. Right. And so to 287 00:18:16.060 --> 00:18:19.020 watch. To watch folks 288 00:18:20.060 --> 00:18:23.740 not live with dignity and humanity because of decision 289 00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:27.580 makers, sure, 290 00:18:27.580 --> 00:18:31.140 it's political. But, you know, Jesus was political 291 00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:34.980 like we're humans, you know, political is 292 00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:38.580 basically for the people of the people with the people. Right? 293 00:18:38.580 --> 00:18:41.540 And so this is about people, like, 294 00:18:43.620 --> 00:18:47.460 everything we do is political, right? Almost every single 295 00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:51.060 thing we do is political. So I think when people say 296 00:18:53.310 --> 00:18:56.910 don't be political, they probably mean don't be partisan, 297 00:18:58.270 --> 00:19:02.110 because we have to talk about politics to be able to do 298 00:19:02.110 --> 00:19:05.310 anything. I mean, you know, the city 299 00:19:05.390 --> 00:19:08.990 takes how much money from our church 300 00:19:09.310 --> 00:19:13.070 funds because of just stormwater runoff? I think we pay 301 00:19:13.630 --> 00:19:17.310 twelve hundred dollars a quarter now. Right. And our 302 00:19:17.310 --> 00:19:21.070 church, that hardly has that just because of our parking lot 303 00:19:21.070 --> 00:19:24.830 and stormwater runoff, that's political. I called 304 00:19:24.830 --> 00:19:28.670 a person who's in politics to say, can we not have a discount for that? 305 00:19:28.670 --> 00:19:32.270 Right. We're a mission church with 306 00:19:32.270 --> 00:19:35.470 Housing. I think it's important to note that. We have housing on 307 00:19:35.870 --> 00:19:39.710 housing in our front yard. And so, you know, 308 00:19:40.030 --> 00:19:43.710 all the things we do are pretty much, do you 309 00:19:43.710 --> 00:19:47.510 want red or purple carpet? Like it's going to be a decision that 310 00:19:47.510 --> 00:19:50.510 we have to make. You know, it's of the people we got. It's political. 311 00:19:51.630 --> 00:19:54.810 Who's going to win that argument in the church? Is it the person who's paying 312 00:19:54.810 --> 00:19:58.250 for the carpet or is it the rest of the folks? Right. Like 313 00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:02.410 it. We can't get away from being political. So I think, 314 00:20:02.970 --> 00:20:06.730 and I have learned, and I'll say this for any listeners 315 00:20:06.730 --> 00:20:10.450 out there who are interested, that I 316 00:20:10.450 --> 00:20:14.210 have probably learned, one of the learnings would be. Yeah. Not to be 317 00:20:14.210 --> 00:20:14.890 partisan 318 00:20:18.090 --> 00:20:21.450 because almost every politician that you're going to back 319 00:20:21.690 --> 00:20:23.450 is going to fail you. Right. 320 00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:29.170 We all know that people change and power 321 00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:32.290 does things to people. Right. So even your 322 00:20:32.370 --> 00:20:36.130 bestie who runs for mayor or city council 323 00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:40.050 is not. Every decision they make is not going to be what you meant necessarily 324 00:20:40.050 --> 00:20:43.690 want them to make. Right. And so standing on values 325 00:20:43.690 --> 00:20:47.250 is a much sure bet. Right. 326 00:20:48.770 --> 00:20:52.550 Than standing for specific people or for specific 327 00:20:52.550 --> 00:20:56.310 parties. There's only one person I think 328 00:20:56.310 --> 00:21:00.150 that I've endorsed that I'm like still willing and happy 329 00:21:00.150 --> 00:21:03.870 to endorse and will to the grave, probably. Right. But 330 00:21:03.870 --> 00:21:07.310 one person out of how many. Right. 331 00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:11.150 Yeah. They fail us. Politicians fail us. They're human. 332 00:21:12.190 --> 00:21:15.830 But values don't necessarily fail us. So like sticking with 333 00:21:15.830 --> 00:21:19.660 those feels like a good idea. Idea. You mentioned the 334 00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:23.300 housing at the church. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Like we're, 335 00:21:23.300 --> 00:21:26.980 we're recording this at the church here in Nashville. 336 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:31.220 Like what's outside here? Yeah. So we sit 337 00:21:31.780 --> 00:21:35.100 on a six acre plot in southeast 338 00:21:35.100 --> 00:21:38.420 Nashville. Really just like right 339 00:21:39.060 --> 00:21:42.540 on 440, so pretty close to 340 00:21:42.540 --> 00:21:46.060 downtown. And like all the other amazing things, like, we're in a great 341 00:21:46.060 --> 00:21:49.840 location, I think, and in our front yard. Yard 342 00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:53.400 we have 12 homes that we 343 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.720 built. They're micro 344 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.440 homes. Two of them hold two people and the 345 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.240 other 10 hold one person each. And it's a 346 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:07.440 medical respite for people experiencing 347 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.280 homelessness. My first appointment in the church was 348 00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:14.800 to the streets. It was not to a church or to a church building. 349 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.230 And honestly, we've made it work. But church buildings 350 00:22:19.230 --> 00:22:22.350 are not my favorite. Right. I would rather be spending time 351 00:22:23.310 --> 00:22:27.030 outside and in the streets and in the community than 352 00:22:27.030 --> 00:22:30.870 in a church building. So it feels like a lot to 353 00:22:30.870 --> 00:22:33.390 take care of sometimes. But we have 354 00:22:34.429 --> 00:22:38.070 utilized this space so that we have more people coming through 355 00:22:38.070 --> 00:22:41.710 during the week, more Community members coming through the week that would normally never step 356 00:22:41.710 --> 00:22:45.310 foot in a church. Right. But they are utilizing our space 357 00:22:46.030 --> 00:22:49.870 because we have shared values. Values. And they are working in the 358 00:22:49.870 --> 00:22:53.630 community for those shared values. Right. So they may not show up on a Sunday 359 00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:56.950 morning at church, but they trust me, 360 00:22:57.350 --> 00:23:01.030 which is an honor. Right. And they know that they can come here and 361 00:23:01.030 --> 00:23:04.390 find safe space where they can organize, 362 00:23:05.270 --> 00:23:08.910 where they can talk about what the next step is for a 363 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:12.390 campaign around helping 364 00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.920 protect folks in whatever ways they need to be protected 365 00:23:16.800 --> 00:23:20.640 or to help serve folks, feed folks who 366 00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:23.200 maybe they're going with to court this week. Right. 367 00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:28.639 So using this space as a place to organize 368 00:23:28.639 --> 00:23:30.880 for our values, which again, 369 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.760 is ecumenical, is interfaith, 370 00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:39.580 is. It crosses so many, so 371 00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:43.380 many intersections that we can all relate to. 372 00:23:43.620 --> 00:23:47.180 I think, like folks that are not in the 373 00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:47.700 1%. 374 00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:54.260 Everybody kind of has their passion projects or 375 00:23:55.780 --> 00:23:59.500 in using terms around value, like the. The things that 376 00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:03.140 they tend to focus on a little bit more. And it sounds like 377 00:24:03.380 --> 00:24:07.210 housing is. Is one of those push buttons topics for 378 00:24:07.210 --> 00:24:10.930 you. Giving voice to marginalized communities is another one. 379 00:24:12.210 --> 00:24:15.890 In, in our own state or in our own context, 380 00:24:16.530 --> 00:24:20.210 it can feel like we're moving away from, like, 381 00:24:20.210 --> 00:24:23.610 full justice for this. You know, for example, like around 382 00:24:23.610 --> 00:24:27.250 Tennessee, our reaction 383 00:24:27.250 --> 00:24:30.970 to homeless people is to, you know, make it illegal to be 384 00:24:30.970 --> 00:24:34.290 homeless, that you can be ticketed for being on the sidewalk kind of deal or. 385 00:24:34.370 --> 00:24:38.160 Or for camping out in a certain space. So as 386 00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:41.840 it feels like we're. We're kind of walking back on issues of justice like that, 387 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.400 and you're so enmeshed in this work of. Of being 388 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:49.200 proactive in that space. Like, are there stories that. 389 00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:52.640 That kind of give you hope to keep going? Sure. 390 00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:57.120 I mean, it feels. I mean, it's a heavy time right now. 391 00:24:57.120 --> 00:25:00.720 Right. Let's. Let's not confuse that. It is a very 392 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.480 heavy time. And I would be silly to say that I don't 393 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:06.640 feel heavy right now. Right. 394 00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:11.360 Again, this. Just this morning at the, you know, going to the Capitol for the 395 00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:14.960 first time since session, and everybody's like, oh, Pastor Ingrid, 396 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.760 you know, like all the. All the security, like, whatever. 397 00:25:18.760 --> 00:25:22.360 People who are used to people are. Genuinely happy to see. Well, and they're like, 398 00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:25.600 how's it going? You know, how's your summer? And it's like, terrible. 399 00:25:26.560 --> 00:25:30.370 It's. It feels terrible. You know, we've had 400 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:34.770 30 days of the hottest weather in Nashville in how long? 401 00:25:34.850 --> 00:25:38.490 Right. Heat advisories every day, heat index of 402 00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:41.930 114 yesterday. So, like, you're stuck 403 00:25:41.930 --> 00:25:44.930 inside and it feels like things are Falling apart 404 00:25:45.329 --> 00:25:48.770 everywhere. You know, you ask about my issues 405 00:25:48.930 --> 00:25:52.770 like certainly housing, certainly people's voices being heard, 406 00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:56.930 white Christian nationalism, you know, down with it. I mean, I'm not 407 00:25:56.930 --> 00:26:00.610 down with, I'm saying get rid of, be down. Let's, let's get rid of 408 00:26:00.610 --> 00:26:04.330 it. You know, the immigration stuff 409 00:26:04.330 --> 00:26:08.090 that's coming up, all of 410 00:26:08.090 --> 00:26:09.330 these things certainly. 411 00:26:12.530 --> 00:26:16.250 But the hope, I guess it is 412 00:26:16.250 --> 00:26:19.850 so heavy and yet I want to say people are 413 00:26:19.850 --> 00:26:23.540 amazing, right? There's so many 414 00:26:23.540 --> 00:26:27.260 more people that have 415 00:26:27.260 --> 00:26:30.380 power that maybe don't realize it, right. 416 00:26:30.780 --> 00:26:34.460 Or it's a different kind of power than they're used to. So they're not, they 417 00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:38.140 haven't maybe activated it yet. But the people 418 00:26:38.140 --> 00:26:41.940 who are learning to activate their voices and who are learning, 419 00:26:41.940 --> 00:26:45.700 who are starting to show up just because they can't think about 420 00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:49.500 doing anything else right now anymore, right? They're tired 421 00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:53.220 of it. They're tired of decisions being made 422 00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:56.860 for them, not by them, right? And so I 423 00:26:56.860 --> 00:27:00.620 think it is so hopeful, it is so hopeful to me 424 00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:02.860 when I see a woman from, 425 00:27:05.020 --> 00:27:08.780 from Robertson County. I mean this meeting this morning was at 8 426 00:27:08.780 --> 00:27:12.540 o'. Clock. I'm sure she had to leave at 6 this morning. She works 427 00:27:12.540 --> 00:27:16.150 as a, in a, she works in a 428 00:27:16.150 --> 00:27:19.790 warehouse in Robertson County. She works the night shift. She came 429 00:27:19.790 --> 00:27:23.550 in after her night shift to be present and to speak at this thing this 430 00:27:23.550 --> 00:27:27.390 morning. And I just think, yes, this is it, 431 00:27:27.470 --> 00:27:30.710 right? This is people standing up and saying, these are my 432 00:27:30.710 --> 00:27:33.950 values. I'm. I don't have to be a 433 00:27:33.950 --> 00:27:37.750 pastor, I don't have to be a rabbi or 434 00:27:37.750 --> 00:27:41.190 an imam or you know, somebody in 435 00:27:41.270 --> 00:27:44.830 special power, District superintendent. No, I can just be 436 00:27:44.830 --> 00:27:48.630 Ingrid McIntyre and go and speak. I can just be Joanna 437 00:27:48.630 --> 00:27:52.190 and go and speak. I can just be, you know, Ms. Jane and go and 438 00:27:52.190 --> 00:27:55.510 speak. 80 year old women are getting thrown out of 439 00:27:55.510 --> 00:27:59.270 committees right now because they are standing up for their 440 00:27:59.270 --> 00:28:02.790 values. And that is hope, right? 441 00:28:03.590 --> 00:28:06.710 That is, you know, maybe 442 00:28:07.320 --> 00:28:10.520 Jesus saying, take this cup from me, but here I am, 443 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:14.200 I'm going to stand up, I'm going to keep going, 444 00:28:14.840 --> 00:28:18.360 right? And to me it's beautiful. 445 00:28:18.520 --> 00:28:21.320 Like, I think that is more 446 00:28:21.320 --> 00:28:25.160 transformative to a community than 447 00:28:25.320 --> 00:28:28.760 any redlining or you know, 448 00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:33.640 zoning hearings or we're going to put this 449 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.320 tunnel right through your neighborhood without asking any of that, right? Personal 450 00:28:37.320 --> 00:28:40.900 transformation where one by one folks are standing up and 451 00:28:40.900 --> 00:28:44.540 saying, nah, I don't, this isn't okay with me 452 00:28:44.540 --> 00:28:47.940 anymore. That is helpful. 453 00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:52.900 I'll preach. One 454 00:28:52.900 --> 00:28:56.180 final question. In thinking about your 455 00:28:56.260 --> 00:29:00.100 spiritual journey, were there certain books, authors, 456 00:29:00.260 --> 00:29:04.020 voices, even preachers that kind of had 457 00:29:04.020 --> 00:29:05.540 an impact on your. 458 00:29:08.270 --> 00:29:11.630 On your theological mindset. Yeah, sure. I mean, 459 00:29:11.870 --> 00:29:14.990 liberation theology all the way for me. Right. 460 00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:21.829 Dr. Beverly Mitchell, who just retired from Wesley 461 00:29:21.829 --> 00:29:25.550 Theological Seminary, I think she changed my life. Right. 462 00:29:25.550 --> 00:29:29.070 I think I just, I got to tell her that 463 00:29:29.470 --> 00:29:32.760 at her retirement, which was nice. 464 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.920 She just put things in front of my face 465 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:41.160 that I needed to see and asked hard 466 00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:44.840 questions and was willing to have hard conversations about, 467 00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:50.520 you know, about capitalism, about the way our country works, about where 468 00:29:51.080 --> 00:29:54.720 our clothing comes from and who's making it and how much they're getting 469 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.850 paid or what their lives look like. Right. 470 00:29:59.610 --> 00:30:03.210 Nothing is what it is on the surface. Like, we have to always dig 471 00:30:03.210 --> 00:30:06.970 deeper to see what is that? 472 00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:12.010 What does justice look like around almost every situation? Right. 473 00:30:12.330 --> 00:30:14.490 What are, what are people's experiences? 474 00:30:16.010 --> 00:30:19.130 I mean, ultimately is the Earth, are living things, 475 00:30:19.690 --> 00:30:23.490 humans obviously included? Are we thriving? Is 476 00:30:23.490 --> 00:30:26.890 the environment thriving? It's not. Well, why not? Well, 477 00:30:27.620 --> 00:30:31.340 let's get to it. Right? Let's get to it. So if a human's 478 00:30:31.340 --> 00:30:34.980 not thriving, why not? Let's fix this. Fix the system. It's not an 479 00:30:35.300 --> 00:30:38.740 in one individual bad decision that has, like, 480 00:30:39.540 --> 00:30:43.059 made things fall apart. It's systems that are not made to work for 481 00:30:43.059 --> 00:30:46.860 certain people. And until you 482 00:30:46.860 --> 00:30:50.260 organize large groups of people to see those 483 00:30:50.260 --> 00:30:53.220 broken systems and then to help fix and change them, 484 00:30:54.490 --> 00:30:58.130 we're not going to get anywhere. Well, so if you wanted to put it an 485 00:30:58.130 --> 00:31:01.930 exclamation point on that, then, like, what would that be? Like, get 486 00:31:01.930 --> 00:31:05.770 active. Get activate. Right there. There 487 00:31:05.850 --> 00:31:09.210 are people in every community, 488 00:31:10.490 --> 00:31:14.330 not just Nashville. Right. There are people in Dixon. There are people 489 00:31:14.410 --> 00:31:18.050 in Robertson County. There are people in between here 490 00:31:18.050 --> 00:31:20.010 in Memphis. Right there. I mean, 491 00:31:22.210 --> 00:31:25.770 our rural communities have got 492 00:31:25.770 --> 00:31:28.930 to, like, we've got to figure it out with our rural communities. 493 00:31:29.490 --> 00:31:32.450 We've got to figure out how to build relationships 494 00:31:34.290 --> 00:31:35.490 because that's where 495 00:31:38.450 --> 00:31:41.970 some folks who are maybe not 496 00:31:41.970 --> 00:31:45.810 upholding the values that we believe in. And I can say that 497 00:31:45.890 --> 00:31:49.340 as a United Methodist, we do not believe in these 498 00:31:49.340 --> 00:31:52.180 values. We do not. 499 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:55.940 And so how can we 500 00:31:56.740 --> 00:32:00.300 further and further organize ourselves to say 501 00:32:00.300 --> 00:32:03.380 to our. The people who are supposed to be 502 00:32:04.340 --> 00:32:07.940 speaking for us, who? Some of our 503 00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:09.220 United Methodists. 504 00:32:11.860 --> 00:32:15.620 Let me say that again, some of who are United Methodists. 505 00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:17.380 How are we holding them accountable? 506 00:32:20.740 --> 00:32:22.660 Activate your voice. You got it. 507 00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:28.060 That's it for this episode of Compass, Finding Spirituality in the 508 00:32:28.060 --> 00:32:31.820 Everyday. We're so grateful that you've joined us for this meaningful 509 00:32:31.820 --> 00:32:35.580 conversation exploring faith, justice, and the 510 00:32:35.580 --> 00:32:39.080 ways in which each of us can activate our voices 511 00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:43.110 for good. You know, I had to leave this interview a 512 00:32:43.110 --> 00:32:46.270 little bit early because I got a phone call that my wife had been bitten 513 00:32:46.270 --> 00:32:49.670 by a dog. She was on her way to the emergency room. Turned out 514 00:32:49.670 --> 00:32:53.070 she's. She's just fine. Just kind of a painful experience. 515 00:32:53.310 --> 00:32:57.070 But as I was there in the waiting room in the er, 516 00:32:57.310 --> 00:33:01.150 a young man brought in an older woman. Not sure what her 517 00:33:01.150 --> 00:33:04.710 issues were, but she was definitely confused. Well, it turns out this young man had 518 00:33:04.710 --> 00:33:08.480 just met her and saw that she needed help, brought her there 519 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.080 to the er. As they were waiting for the doctors to call her back, 520 00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:16.000 he started sharing his life with her. He was showing her pictures 521 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.040 of his children and talking about his 522 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.960 relationship status. It was actually really, really heartwarming. 523 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:26.720 As she was called back, it seemed a logical 524 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:30.360 opportunity for the young man to maybe make his exit. He turned his good 525 00:33:30.360 --> 00:33:33.860 deeds right. However, he was concerned that she was 526 00:33:33.860 --> 00:33:37.700 confused, that she just needed somebody to be with her during that time. 527 00:33:37.780 --> 00:33:41.300 And so he stayed and went back with her. I'm not sure how the situation 528 00:33:41.300 --> 00:33:45.140 worked out, but to me, in witnessing that, it was just this 529 00:33:45.300 --> 00:33:49.060 exclamation point on Ingrid's idea that there 530 00:33:49.060 --> 00:33:52.860 are good people and this is where the hope is found that there are 531 00:33:52.860 --> 00:33:56.710 still good people who are willing to come alongside the their neighbor 532 00:33:56.710 --> 00:34:00.310 like that, even knowing so little about him having met them 533 00:34:00.310 --> 00:34:03.830 just a few minutes ago. So to that young man, hey, you're my 534 00:34:03.830 --> 00:34:07.350 hero. If you're looking for more from today's 535 00:34:07.350 --> 00:34:10.430 episode, head over to our website@umc.org 536 00:34:10.590 --> 00:34:14.110 Compass you'll find detailed episode notes, resources, 537 00:34:14.350 --> 00:34:18.030 and even more episodes to inspire your journey. A huge 538 00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:21.680 thank you to the team at United Methodist Communications. They make this possible 539 00:34:21.830 --> 00:34:25.390 podcast possible and their dedication helps bring these important stories 540 00:34:25.390 --> 00:34:29.110 and conversations directly to you. If you haven't already, 541 00:34:29.110 --> 00:34:32.630 we'd love for you to subscribe or to rate and review Compass. 542 00:34:32.630 --> 00:34:36.310 Wherever you listen to your podcast, your feedback helps so much. 543 00:34:36.310 --> 00:34:39.910 It helps people find the show and become a part of this growing 544 00:34:39.910 --> 00:34:43.710 community. Thanks again for listening with us. We'll see you in 545 00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:46.390 a couple weeks time here on Compass. Peace.