WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.880 There are instances when a piece of legislation just might open 2 00:00:03.880 --> 00:00:07.040 the door to the miracle that someone is praying for. 3 00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:14.640 Hey, and welcome back to Compass Finding Spirituality in the 4 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.320 Everyday My name is Ryan Dunn. In this episode I'm joined by 5 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.960 Reverend Ben Roberts, who is Director of Social Justice 6 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:25.440 Ministries at Foundry United Methodist church in 7 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.200 Washington, D.C. ben shares a behind the scenes 8 00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:32.920 look at his unique role, balancing hands on outreach like 9 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:36.520 feeding programs and ID assistance with 10 00:00:36.680 --> 00:00:40.440 community advocacy and city council engagement. 11 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:44.600 The conversation that we have dives into the intersecting worlds of 12 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:47.800 faith, justice and practical support, 13 00:00:48.120 --> 00:00:51.320 especially for those experiencing homelessness. 14 00:00:51.800 --> 00:00:55.430 Ben opens up about how spirituality fuels his work, the power 15 00:00:55.430 --> 00:00:59.230 of community, and the importance of seeing and 16 00:00:59.310 --> 00:01:02.990 serving those often overlooked in our cities. Along the way, 17 00:01:03.070 --> 00:01:06.510 you're going to hear about the real challenges posed by recent policy 18 00:01:06.590 --> 00:01:10.430 changes in dc, stories of hard fought victories, 19 00:01:10.669 --> 00:01:14.190 and how every person can play a part in creating 20 00:01:14.270 --> 00:01:17.910 meaningful change. Whether you're new to the world of social justice 21 00:01:17.910 --> 00:01:21.760 or looking for hope and inspiration in tough times, this 22 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:24.640 episode should help us imagine what's possible 23 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:29.120 when we look at faithfully removing roadblocks 24 00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:32.240 to answering someone's need based prayers. 25 00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:36.480 If conversations like this are interesting or valuable to you, 26 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:40.240 I'd appreciate it if you hit the subscribe button on Spotify, 27 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:44.200 Apple Podcasts, YouTube, whatever platform you might be hearing this 28 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:47.840 broadcast upon. It's also really, really helpful to leave a little 29 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:51.520 review. For example, on Spotify you hit that little star button 30 00:01:51.520 --> 00:01:55.320 and give us a. Five star rating or whatever you feel 31 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:59.040 we've warranted. So thanks so much for that. Now 32 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.280 I've known Reverend Bed Roberts for several years. We were 33 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:06.199 ordained as deacons together a while back, but 34 00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:10.160 I didn't know much about his backstory prior to our paths crossing as 35 00:02:10.160 --> 00:02:13.760 adults. So thankfully he shares some of that with us and what 36 00:02:13.760 --> 00:02:17.360 led him into his unique expression of ministry 37 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:20.980 in Washington, dc. So so let's get to know Ben a little bit better 38 00:02:20.980 --> 00:02:24.580 and hear about how faith is moving from the sanctuary 39 00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:28.740 to the streets here on Compass. Ben, first, thanks for joining us 40 00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:32.580 on Compass. I'm guessing that not every church or every 41 00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:36.180 church member is familiar with a Director of Social Justice Ministries. 42 00:02:36.180 --> 00:02:40.020 And I know that's just one of the hats that you wear at Foundry 43 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:43.780 United Methodist Church. But can you paint a picture for us 44 00:02:44.260 --> 00:02:48.050 what the role of the Director of Social Justice Ministries looks 45 00:02:48.050 --> 00:02:51.490 like? Yes, certainly. Glad to be with you 46 00:02:51.490 --> 00:02:55.210 Ryan. So my ministry here at 47 00:02:55.210 --> 00:02:58.850 Foundry, I've been here now 12 years and I started as the 48 00:02:58.850 --> 00:03:02.410 Director of Social justice ministries in 49 00:03:02.410 --> 00:03:05.130 2013. Foundry's fortunate 50 00:03:06.250 --> 00:03:09.530 to be able to have A full time position like that. But, but basically what 51 00:03:09.530 --> 00:03:12.970 it looked like is caring for all of our direct service 52 00:03:13.480 --> 00:03:16.200 efforts. And when I say direct service, you think about 53 00:03:16.920 --> 00:03:19.240 feeding programs, clothing programs, 54 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.360 you know, going out cooking at different places, doing 55 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.800 our service, days out in the community, picking up trash, whatever it happens to be 56 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.720 anything that's going to meet an immediate physical need that somebody 57 00:03:31.720 --> 00:03:35.560 has. But what it also encompasses is 58 00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:39.400 being able to do some community organizing and 59 00:03:39.480 --> 00:03:42.920 advocacy work with interfaith partners 60 00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:47.640 and going out and being able to work directly with the 61 00:03:47.720 --> 00:03:51.560 Washington D.C. city Council and the mayor's office 62 00:03:51.720 --> 00:03:55.400 to try and direct the policies that we have here in 63 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:58.960 town. We have been particularly focused on chronic 64 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:02.760 homelessness over these years. And then ID policy, 65 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:05.800 which we can talk a little bit about because of one of our direct service 66 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.720 programs that does non driver's IDs and birth certificates. 67 00:04:10.040 --> 00:04:13.720 And every once in a while we'll do something Federal 68 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:16.980 either with GBCs or if something 69 00:04:17.460 --> 00:04:20.700 once in a while something else will pop up like an ID policy moving through 70 00:04:20.700 --> 00:04:23.900 Congress or something. We'll go and we'll try and make sure that there's a voice 71 00:04:23.900 --> 00:04:27.700 there as well. I don't know. So we've ever 72 00:04:27.700 --> 00:04:31.500 had this conversation and I'm just kind of curious about it. You're ordained in the 73 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:35.100 United Methodist Church and I'm wondering like what kind of came first? What was the 74 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:38.340 horse and what was the wagon? Was it the ordination 75 00:04:38.580 --> 00:04:42.140 that then brought along with it this pursuit of social 76 00:04:42.140 --> 00:04:45.540 justice or was it you were really passionate about 77 00:04:45.860 --> 00:04:49.520 the work in advocacy efficacy and then 78 00:04:49.760 --> 00:04:51.840 that led you into the ordination? 79 00:04:53.440 --> 00:04:57.200 Yeah, concurrent probably. All 80 00:04:57.200 --> 00:05:00.800 right. But they were think 81 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.320 middle school age and luckily, and we're both from North 82 00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:07.920 Carolina conference, the conference had a great youth 83 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.640 program when I was growing up. And one of the events was called 84 00:05:11.640 --> 00:05:15.480 our annual conference session. And it was the chance for the 85 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.230 high school kids to get together and write little right resolutions, say, 86 00:05:19.550 --> 00:05:23.270 pick up a topic, say here's what we feel about it, debate it 87 00:05:23.270 --> 00:05:26.830 amongst each other, vote on it, pass it and send it off to 88 00:05:26.830 --> 00:05:30.670 elected leaders. And that kind of laid a foundation 89 00:05:30.670 --> 00:05:34.470 for me that we have a voice, we have something 90 00:05:34.470 --> 00:05:38.030 important to say and the church cares about 91 00:05:38.110 --> 00:05:41.870 things. The church isn't just about getting 92 00:05:41.870 --> 00:05:45.430 us to do the right rituals. It's not about just getting us 93 00:05:45.430 --> 00:05:48.610 to, I don't know, say Jesus 10 times. 94 00:05:49.330 --> 00:05:52.770 It's about having an impact. Our Wesleyan tradition 95 00:05:53.090 --> 00:05:56.770 calls us to have a social witness as 96 00:05:56.770 --> 00:06:00.410 the church. And that's what I was brought up in. So 97 00:06:00.410 --> 00:06:04.250 that is what kind of got me going. I Had a sense that 98 00:06:04.250 --> 00:06:05.650 whole time of something about 99 00:06:07.730 --> 00:06:10.770 ordination or church leadership. But it's also the case in, 100 00:06:11.570 --> 00:06:15.270 probably in a lot of conferences. But in North Carolina, the sense 101 00:06:15.270 --> 00:06:19.110 growing up was there are elders and there is Duke 102 00:06:19.110 --> 00:06:22.630 University and there is not much else. Right. 103 00:06:23.590 --> 00:06:26.390 And it took a while. It takes a long time to 104 00:06:27.350 --> 00:06:31.190 figure out that those aren't the only options. The deacon order 105 00:06:31.670 --> 00:06:35.030 as an ordained piece hasn't been around that long, you know, 96. 106 00:06:35.590 --> 00:06:38.630 So people are still learning how to talk about it even at this point. 107 00:06:39.990 --> 00:06:43.670 But as I got clarity that I wanted to do something about faith in 108 00:06:43.670 --> 00:06:47.160 the public square, that's what kind of put my 109 00:06:47.160 --> 00:06:49.520 attention on there being 110 00:06:50.880 --> 00:06:54.640 a seminary in Washington, D.C. i was an undergrad. I pulled a 111 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.480 book off of the shelf in one of my classrooms that just happened to list 112 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:02.240 all of the Methodist schools. And I was just flipping through 113 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:06.080 that book and I found Wesley. And I was like, oh, well, if there's 114 00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:09.440 a seminary in D.C. then that's probably a good place to 115 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.690 do some learning around faith in the public square. So 116 00:07:13.690 --> 00:07:17.090 all along you were thinking a part of your 117 00:07:17.090 --> 00:07:20.810 ministry, so to speak, was gonna be like 118 00:07:20.810 --> 00:07:24.530 showing up to city council meetings, something. 119 00:07:24.690 --> 00:07:28.530 I think I was a little more grandiose when I was coming up. 120 00:07:29.330 --> 00:07:33.090 More like, more like organizing actions on the steps of the Capitol. 121 00:07:33.090 --> 00:07:36.370 Probably. Probably, yeah. And because I was familiar with what 122 00:07:36.370 --> 00:07:40.170 gbcs did. Right. And so if I, if I had known better, if, if I 123 00:07:40.170 --> 00:07:43.730 had better questions to ask, maybe when I was younger, maybe I could have figured 124 00:07:43.730 --> 00:07:47.470 it, but I had zero intention. This is, this 125 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:51.150 still cracks me up a little bit. But I had zero intention of 126 00:07:51.230 --> 00:07:54.950 ever working in a local church. And 127 00:07:54.950 --> 00:07:58.470 I have now been here in this local church for, for 12 128 00:07:58.470 --> 00:08:01.910 years and, and basically my entire adult 129 00:08:01.910 --> 00:08:05.630 ministry. Yeah. One of the ministries that 130 00:08:05.630 --> 00:08:09.430 has been sponsored through the church you've already talked about is foundries 131 00:08:09.430 --> 00:08:13.160 ID ministry. And I would love for you to paint 132 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.840 a picture for us about how that works and maybe even 133 00:08:16.840 --> 00:08:19.920 naming why obtaining proper 134 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:22.960 identification is such a 135 00:08:23.280 --> 00:08:26.880 crucial step for somebody that's in a vulnerable position 136 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.080 regarding like housing, health care, or employment. 137 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:34.480 Absolutely. So we do have the ID ministry. 138 00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:39.040 Its main purpose is to help get you your birth certificate, 139 00:08:39.040 --> 00:08:41.969 Social Security card, or non driver's id. 140 00:08:42.689 --> 00:08:45.809 The reason we do it is, as you've kind of alluded to it, is a 141 00:08:45.809 --> 00:08:49.609 barrier. You don't get housing without producing an id. You 142 00:08:49.609 --> 00:08:53.089 do not get a job without producing an id, 143 00:08:54.449 --> 00:08:57.249 and you're not going to be able to apply for public benefits if you need 144 00:08:57.249 --> 00:09:01.049 them. You can't even Enroll your kid in school if you don't 145 00:09:01.049 --> 00:09:04.849 have some form of ID for them as well. So birth certificates are usually 146 00:09:04.849 --> 00:09:08.289 the first thing that people are getting for their kids is they're hitting pre K3 147 00:09:08.289 --> 00:09:12.100 or, or kindergarten. So what we've 148 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:15.758 found over the years, this ministry has been going close to 26, 149 00:09:15.922 --> 00:09:19.660 27 years at this point. I came in in 2013. 150 00:09:20.780 --> 00:09:24.619 In 2014, the Real ID act passed through 151 00:09:24.619 --> 00:09:27.980 Congress and that changed the way that we do. 152 00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:32.460 Well, excuse me, it passed back in the early 2000s. It came into 153 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:36.270 effect in Washington D.C. in 2014 and now 154 00:09:36.510 --> 00:09:40.110 everybody has seen it over the last like eight 155 00:09:40.190 --> 00:09:43.910 to 10 months because it's becoming into effect nationwide 156 00:09:43.910 --> 00:09:47.670 and you can't get on a plane anymore without a real ID. Well, what happened 157 00:09:47.670 --> 00:09:51.430 for us in 2014 is we went overnight from being able 158 00:09:51.430 --> 00:09:55.230 to help people apply for their IDs with not too 159 00:09:55.230 --> 00:09:57.630 much friction. You still had a lot of proving to do. 160 00:09:58.830 --> 00:10:02.420 But we had these additions of things like two proofs of address 161 00:10:03.540 --> 00:10:07.220 and you must produce like multiple proofs of identity 162 00:10:07.220 --> 00:10:10.940 plus legal, legal status in the, in the 163 00:10:10.940 --> 00:10:14.340 country. We dropped from having around an 164 00:10:14.340 --> 00:10:18.180 83% success rate to a 39% 165 00:10:18.180 --> 00:10:21.540 success rate overnight. And it was actually, 166 00:10:22.100 --> 00:10:25.900 it went into effect on a Thursday. We had our ID ministry on 167 00:10:25.900 --> 00:10:29.060 a Friday morning and pretty much everybody that met with us that day 168 00:10:29.730 --> 00:10:32.210 was doomed for failure. And we had no idea. 169 00:10:33.570 --> 00:10:37.410 We got a lot more professional with our work at 170 00:10:37.410 --> 00:10:40.850 that point. We had to get really good at like fitting the puzzle pieces together, 171 00:10:40.930 --> 00:10:44.730 the kind of nonsense that when you're in an emergency situation, you 172 00:10:44.730 --> 00:10:48.210 got evicted or you're in survival mode because you're outside, 173 00:10:48.370 --> 00:10:52.210 if you're in a domestic violence situation, any of those things, you're not thinking 174 00:10:52.210 --> 00:10:55.850 about how to put all these little pieces together and it can delay you for 175 00:10:55.850 --> 00:10:59.260 forever. So that's the kind of work that the volunteers do, is, is to help 176 00:10:59.260 --> 00:11:02.980 you navigate the process and then we'll help you pay for the 177 00:11:02.980 --> 00:11:05.420 credential if you need that help to pay for it. 178 00:11:06.780 --> 00:11:10.220 Yeah, in those situations, you're not thinking about grabbing the birth 179 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:13.820 certificate before you go or. No. And a lot of times 180 00:11:14.620 --> 00:11:18.380 in like a domestic violence situation, credentials and IDs are one of the 181 00:11:18.380 --> 00:11:22.020 things that the abusive partner usually holds 182 00:11:22.020 --> 00:11:25.860 over the rest of the family, basically. So we have 183 00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:29.500 to work really hard to help people replace that. Well, we're recording 184 00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:31.820 this in mid September of 2025. 185 00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:36.860 The events leading up to this time in history 186 00:11:36.860 --> 00:11:40.460 around Washington D.C. has been that the National Guard has been 187 00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:45.420 sent in, in what's been proclaimed as an emergency situation. 188 00:11:46.220 --> 00:11:49.660 You know, we can get into all of that, 189 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:54.310 but my, my first question regarding that is, has. Has 190 00:11:54.310 --> 00:11:57.670 this presence disrupted your 191 00:11:57.670 --> 00:12:01.190 ministry in that regard? Yeah. 192 00:12:01.430 --> 00:12:04.950 So the biggest disruption, again, we do a lot of work on 193 00:12:04.950 --> 00:12:08.630 chronic homelessness. And when 194 00:12:08.630 --> 00:12:12.230 you're working with a. With an unhoused population at all, 195 00:12:13.110 --> 00:12:16.230 one of the hardest things to do is stay in contact with people. 196 00:12:17.270 --> 00:12:20.990 So even if you. If you've got somebody who's really well put 197 00:12:20.990 --> 00:12:24.790 together, they're not suffering from like compounded stress and trauma. And I have a. Mental 198 00:12:24.790 --> 00:12:27.650 health issues, whatever. Even in the best case scenario, 199 00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:31.170 keeping in contact with somebody is the thing that delays people 200 00:12:32.050 --> 00:12:35.850 probably the most. You lose your phone, your 201 00:12:35.850 --> 00:12:39.610 stuff gets thrown out, you have to move from site to site. 202 00:12:39.610 --> 00:12:43.410 So anytime that's in play, it makes it harder. So what we 203 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:47.370 saw immediately as they kind 204 00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:51.170 of made it a priority to what they call. 205 00:12:51.330 --> 00:12:54.840 They call it clearing encampments. And this is something that the city 206 00:12:55.560 --> 00:12:59.160 does. The city of Washington, D.C. 207 00:12:59.160 --> 00:13:02.960 does this. The White House just kind of said they want to make 208 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.240 it even more of a priority because 209 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:10.680 there were tents near like the Kennedy center or down 210 00:13:10.680 --> 00:13:14.400 near the State Department. The reason people go 211 00:13:14.400 --> 00:13:18.160 to those places is because, you know, shelters can't take. They, they 212 00:13:18.160 --> 00:13:21.760 will not take everyone. Um, if you're married, 213 00:13:22.160 --> 00:13:25.880 there's not really shelters for you. We have, we have one and it 214 00:13:25.880 --> 00:13:29.440 just came online this year, and there's not enough space. 215 00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:33.280 If you have a pet, shelters will not, will 216 00:13:33.280 --> 00:13:36.800 not take you. And then shelters are frequently 217 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.720 overcrowded. They're not the cleanest places in the world. They're not the safest 218 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:44.480 places in the world. You're basically tossed into a room with at least 219 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:48.310 four other people that you've probably never met, some of whom may be 220 00:13:48.310 --> 00:13:50.790 experiencing really serious mental health issues. 221 00:13:52.070 --> 00:13:55.590 Others might just not like you. We see it a lot across 222 00:13:57.270 --> 00:14:00.790 race and ethnic lines where folks don't get along 223 00:14:00.870 --> 00:14:04.670 or they get targeted because of that. We see people have 224 00:14:04.670 --> 00:14:08.430 their belongings stolen. And then the shelter process, especially the low 225 00:14:08.430 --> 00:14:12.070 barrier shelter process, is kind of lined up 226 00:14:12.070 --> 00:14:15.790 around 4pm to get into 227 00:14:15.790 --> 00:14:19.630 a shelter that doesn't open until like 7pm and then you have 228 00:14:19.630 --> 00:14:23.070 to pack up all your stuff the next morning at 7am and be out of 229 00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:26.110 there and then find something to do with yourself all day. 230 00:14:27.150 --> 00:14:30.870 They're not centrally located. Some of them have 231 00:14:30.870 --> 00:14:34.110 services, some of them don't. So when we see this 232 00:14:34.110 --> 00:14:37.910 disruption come of like encampment clearing, people lose 233 00:14:37.910 --> 00:14:41.710 belongings, they lose really critical elements like cell phones, 234 00:14:44.150 --> 00:14:47.790 and they get moved Away from the places where we know to find them. 235 00:14:47.790 --> 00:14:51.550 Yeah, so we have street outreach teams, we have caseworkers. 236 00:14:51.550 --> 00:14:55.230 We generally know where somebody is until they get pushed off the 237 00:14:55.230 --> 00:14:59.070 spot. And one of the big problems, and this 238 00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:02.790 is pre the emergency declaration, one of the biggest 239 00:15:02.790 --> 00:15:06.430 problems is people may not get full 240 00:15:06.430 --> 00:15:09.770 notice that a clearing is coming. 241 00:15:11.290 --> 00:15:15.090 The city had usually been good about giving multiple days worth of 242 00:15:15.090 --> 00:15:18.650 notice. But what we found out in this emergency 243 00:15:19.050 --> 00:15:22.730 is the city came around. Washington Circle is the area that I'm 244 00:15:22.730 --> 00:15:26.570 thinking of. This is in Foggy Bottom near George Washington 245 00:15:26.570 --> 00:15:30.330 University Hospital. And like a hospital 246 00:15:30.330 --> 00:15:33.690 is a great resource to have if you. If you need it. But. So 247 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.800 Washington Circle was given notice. 248 00:15:37.800 --> 00:15:41.640 They were basically told it was on a Thursday. They were told, hey, this coming 249 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:45.560 Monday will be back to clear you out. This is Friday 250 00:15:45.560 --> 00:15:49.320 night, excuse me, Monday, we're coming to clear you guys out. So that's 251 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:53.000 notice at least. But what they did was actually came 252 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.800 back about eight hours later on Saturday morning. And there 253 00:15:56.800 --> 00:16:00.610 was only one person still in their tent at that time. Because what you 254 00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:03.810 do during the day is you go find food, you go meet with your 255 00:16:03.810 --> 00:16:07.330 caseworker, you go get a shower, you take care of 256 00:16:07.330 --> 00:16:11.090 yourself. So there was only one person actually present in 257 00:16:11.090 --> 00:16:14.490 their tent. That person was allowed to kind of pack up their belongings. 258 00:16:14.650 --> 00:16:18.490 Anybody else's stuff was just tossed in the garbage truck 259 00:16:18.490 --> 00:16:20.730 and drove off. So there's no telling 260 00:16:22.250 --> 00:16:25.900 right away from that who lost what. But. But 261 00:16:25.900 --> 00:16:29.340 I. I've seen it plenty of times, like critical documents, 262 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:33.060 phones, things that you need get tossed and it just delays you 263 00:16:33.060 --> 00:16:36.860 further and further. So that in that way we're massively 264 00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:39.940 disrupted. The other piece is we don't know where those folks go next. 265 00:16:41.300 --> 00:16:45.100 So we used to find you here. Now where are you? We don't know if 266 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:48.940 you went to shelter. We don't know if you slipped over into Virginia or 267 00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:52.720 Maryland. We don't know if you just kind of got pushed up 268 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.400 north into the residential neighborhoods, which is what we've seen 269 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:00.560 a lot here. Like at the church, we kind of had an aberration 270 00:17:00.560 --> 00:17:04.080 there prior to the emergency where we didn't have people 271 00:17:04.080 --> 00:17:07.120 sleeping on our steps for multiple weeks. 272 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.640 It's rarely like that here. But we didn't have people sleeping on 273 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.160 our own steps for a really long time until the emergency was 274 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.840 declared. Now I've got new people out there that I'm meeting for the 275 00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:21.550 first time that, you know, fine, 276 00:17:22.510 --> 00:17:25.150 we have rules around it, but we try not to run people away. 277 00:17:26.110 --> 00:17:29.830 I meet with them, I have outreach come and Meet with 278 00:17:29.830 --> 00:17:33.070 them. It's a predictable, safe spot for folks who don't 279 00:17:33.550 --> 00:17:37.390 feel like they can be safe in the shelter. Lots of folks who are 280 00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:41.070 Hispanic tend to stay out there and all of that. You know, 281 00:17:41.550 --> 00:17:44.830 we've got some parameters around it and people are good neighbors with us, 282 00:17:47.080 --> 00:17:50.600 but we weren't having that for a little while until the 283 00:17:50.600 --> 00:17:54.000 emergency was declared. And what we see now in our 284 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.560 neighborhood is individuals on little corners, 285 00:17:59.320 --> 00:18:03.000 which just adds weight, and individuals over 286 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.720 in parks where we had never actually seen people before. And it adds 287 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:10.000 weight onto the outreach workers because now they're spread out 288 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.660 geographically and you have to, you're doing a lot 289 00:18:13.660 --> 00:18:17.420 more literal legwork to try and go find and keep 290 00:18:17.420 --> 00:18:19.900 track of people. And there's no guarantee they're going to be there more than one 291 00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:23.660 night. So it just, it makes everything harder. In a best 292 00:18:23.660 --> 00:18:26.340 case scenario, how long does it take for 293 00:18:26.820 --> 00:18:29.980 somebody to get the 294 00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:33.620 identification that they need? Yeah, best 295 00:18:33.620 --> 00:18:36.860 case scenario is about a month. So if you, if you come to me and 296 00:18:36.860 --> 00:18:40.420 you've got, you've got nothing on hand 297 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:44.180 but say you were born here in D.C. and you've 298 00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:47.900 got at least some kind of document ready, it's going to, you can 299 00:18:47.900 --> 00:18:51.660 go and do your birth certificate in person, you can 300 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:55.140 apply in person for your Social Security card, but it'll get mailed and that's up 301 00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:58.980 to 14 days. And then once you have those items, plus your 302 00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:02.740 proofs of address, you go to the DMV, you'll get a temporary 303 00:19:02.740 --> 00:19:06.450 30 day paper ID. And this is probably pretty uniform 304 00:19:06.450 --> 00:19:09.890 across the country at this point. You get this temporary 305 00:19:09.970 --> 00:19:13.330 paper ID, but then your hard ID, 306 00:19:13.890 --> 00:19:17.730 plastic card is going to be another 10 to 14 days to get 307 00:19:17.730 --> 00:19:20.770 mailed. So, yeah, month at best. 308 00:19:21.570 --> 00:19:25.410 But we've seen all kinds. Yeah, yeah. 309 00:19:25.410 --> 00:19:29.210 And so this kind of clearing out can be a disruption 310 00:19:29.210 --> 00:19:32.960 then that just prolongs this sense of keeping people 311 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:36.640 where, where they are in these vulnerable positions. Is 312 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:40.080 that kind of what you see happening? Quite a bit. You see that? Yeah, I 313 00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:43.040 mean, ID is always a barrier. So. So when the city, 314 00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:47.319 and in this case when the federal government is kind of trying to direct the 315 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:51.120 city to do more of it, when, when we have 316 00:19:51.120 --> 00:19:54.960 those pieces go away, you're automatically going 317 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.790 to get stuck out there for a longer period of time. And 318 00:19:58.790 --> 00:20:02.470 what's already a pretty long process because of the amount of resources 319 00:20:02.470 --> 00:20:06.110 and. Housing available, I'm guessing 320 00:20:06.110 --> 00:20:09.910 that you've been able to reconnect with some of the people who may 321 00:20:09.910 --> 00:20:13.510 have been displaced through this whole process. Have 322 00:20:13.510 --> 00:20:17.350 you gotten a sense of the kind of emotional toll that it takes 323 00:20:17.350 --> 00:20:20.990 on people to go through something like that. I have not had success 324 00:20:21.230 --> 00:20:24.910 getting reconnected with quite a few of the people that we actually followed. 325 00:20:25.070 --> 00:20:28.340 This is part of the problem. So what we've been doing 326 00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:32.860 in the wake of the different clearings is I'm reaching out to the 327 00:20:32.860 --> 00:20:36.580 caseworkers and case managers that I know, and I'm like, hey, I see 328 00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:40.420 somebody at 17th and Q. Can you send somebody over? Hey, I 329 00:20:40.420 --> 00:20:43.379 see somebody in this park. Can you send somebody over? 330 00:20:44.180 --> 00:20:47.860 But the people. I've only reconnected with one person 331 00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:52.340 who used to stay on our steps and just recently popped up again 332 00:20:53.510 --> 00:20:57.350 just in this last week. And so I can 333 00:20:57.350 --> 00:21:00.990 tell, you know, it just 334 00:21:00.990 --> 00:21:04.350 pushes people further and further back. And what it does is it also makes people 335 00:21:04.350 --> 00:21:07.590 withdraw, because if, you know you're being 336 00:21:07.590 --> 00:21:10.790 targeted, and in this case they are being targeted, 337 00:21:11.990 --> 00:21:15.510 they'll. They'll withdraw further and further, and they'll try and have less and less 338 00:21:15.510 --> 00:21:18.950 contact. So they'll try and be as invisible as possible, 339 00:21:19.030 --> 00:21:22.350 which, of course, makes you hard to find. And so I'm 340 00:21:22.350 --> 00:21:25.640 witnessing some of my people who now they'll kind of. 341 00:21:26.120 --> 00:21:29.880 They'll completely hunker down to the point of, like, covering themselves 342 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.600 in blankets and kind of hide and sleeping in ways that none of us 343 00:21:33.600 --> 00:21:36.760 would want to sleep, tucking themselves in behind, 344 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:41.000 like, little carts or plants or something like that, just to try and stay 345 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.880 hidden enough so that they're not going to get messed with. The gap 346 00:21:45.080 --> 00:21:48.920 of trust that exists when we pursue policies like this 347 00:21:49.080 --> 00:21:52.820 is just enormous, and it takes a lot to overcome it. And again, 348 00:21:52.820 --> 00:21:56.580 this is something that we've seen both by the city. Other cities 349 00:21:56.580 --> 00:21:59.820 do it, too. In this case, it was being directed 350 00:22:00.220 --> 00:22:03.860 and sped up with little notice so that you 351 00:22:03.860 --> 00:22:06.220 couldn't even kind of get to your people beforehand. 352 00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:13.460 You talked about going to city council meetings. You're 353 00:22:13.460 --> 00:22:17.260 there as a pastoral presence. I mean, you're there to 354 00:22:17.260 --> 00:22:21.060 be an advocate, but also as a pastoral presence. And with 355 00:22:21.060 --> 00:22:24.740 that, then comes this sense of spiritual direction. 356 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:28.580 And can. Can you talk a little bit about how you are 357 00:22:29.300 --> 00:22:32.940 applying that spiritual direction as 358 00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:36.340 you're addressing people in the sort of. That administrative 359 00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:40.100 complex? Yeah. So I was 360 00:22:40.100 --> 00:22:43.660 mentioning this to the. To our. To our conference, the North Carolina annual 361 00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:47.420 conference, this. This past summer. I feel like 362 00:22:47.420 --> 00:22:51.020 one barrier that maybe people in the church in 363 00:22:51.020 --> 00:22:54.850 general, laity or clergy alike, is that you 364 00:22:54.850 --> 00:22:58.130 might think you need to go and be the expert on policy, 365 00:22:58.450 --> 00:23:02.170 for example, or on statistics to be able to go and 366 00:23:02.170 --> 00:23:05.890 have a voice in that type of setting, and it's just not. It's not the 367 00:23:05.890 --> 00:23:08.930 case. And constantly, when 368 00:23:09.330 --> 00:23:12.970 coalition partners ask me to come and talk about chronic 369 00:23:12.970 --> 00:23:16.450 homelessness and solutions, they 370 00:23:16.450 --> 00:23:19.530 usually frame it, and they'll say to me, ben, can you come and do the 371 00:23:19.530 --> 00:23:23.350 moral argument? Okay. Which for a long 372 00:23:23.350 --> 00:23:26.870 time set me on a path of, like, trying to find the. The exact 373 00:23:27.430 --> 00:23:30.870 sort of mathematic equation of what a moral 374 00:23:30.870 --> 00:23:34.550 argument is. And so I. How'd that go? 375 00:23:34.710 --> 00:23:37.510 Yeah, if I had to try. And I was like, well, what exactly is a 376 00:23:37.510 --> 00:23:41.350 moral argument? I was like, so I've tried to piece these 377 00:23:41.350 --> 00:23:44.950 things together in such a way that 378 00:23:44.950 --> 00:23:48.630 I. That I'm speaking, you know, clarity from. From our. 379 00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:52.860 From our perspective as Christians and from my perspective 380 00:23:52.860 --> 00:23:56.500 as a pastor who works with people on these issues. And so what 381 00:23:56.500 --> 00:24:00.340 I've been trying to encourage people to realize is you don't 382 00:24:00.340 --> 00:24:03.980 need to be the policy expert. Let the experts be the 383 00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:07.020 experts. We need to go and be the church. 384 00:24:08.540 --> 00:24:12.220 That's our role in this. And so what that looks like is, 385 00:24:13.340 --> 00:24:16.380 for me, especially early on, I would think about. 386 00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:20.940 If you think about a healing narrative in the gospel, so many 387 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:24.580 of our healing narratives in the gospel will have a place 388 00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:28.020 where they're going to have 389 00:24:28.020 --> 00:24:31.740 Jesus first speaking to a crowd of people that 390 00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:35.420 are in the way of the healing that needs to 391 00:24:35.420 --> 00:24:38.500 take place. So there's one 392 00:24:39.140 --> 00:24:42.020 healing narrative. There's two blind 393 00:24:42.510 --> 00:24:45.870 individuals off the side of the road, and they're walking along, and the crowd is 394 00:24:46.110 --> 00:24:49.230 kind of telling them to shut up and stop yelling over for Jesus. 395 00:24:50.110 --> 00:24:53.830 And Jesus has to overcome that first. The woman who crawls her 396 00:24:53.830 --> 00:24:57.430 way through the crowd to try and get to Jesus just to touch the cloak 397 00:24:57.430 --> 00:25:00.030 and be healed again. The crowd is in the way, 398 00:25:01.310 --> 00:25:04.830 the crowd that surrounds the house, such that the friends 399 00:25:04.910 --> 00:25:08.750 need to pick up their paralytic friend, navigate through the crowd, 400 00:25:08.910 --> 00:25:12.750 rip the roof off of the house, and lower him down to be able to 401 00:25:12.750 --> 00:25:16.550 get to Jesus again. The crowd is a barrier. And so when 402 00:25:16.550 --> 00:25:20.390 I go and I. And we hear things like we're trying to put resources in 403 00:25:20.390 --> 00:25:23.910 place around homelessness or affordable housing, there's 404 00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:27.750 usually a crowd. There's usually a crowd who's out 405 00:25:27.750 --> 00:25:31.390 there saying, no, I don't want that built near 406 00:25:31.470 --> 00:25:34.910 me or in my neighborhood. Yeah, not in my backyard. 407 00:25:34.910 --> 00:25:38.710 Mindset. Okay, some of that mindset. Exactly. And so. So then what am 408 00:25:38.710 --> 00:25:41.950 I there to do? Well, I'm. Now I'm here to tell you a gospel story 409 00:25:43.230 --> 00:25:45.710 about what it takes to get healing in place. 410 00:25:46.830 --> 00:25:50.590 Even in the case of Jesus, who can do all the stuff. There's usually still 411 00:25:50.590 --> 00:25:53.510 a crowd in the way. And so what. What needs to be said to the 412 00:25:53.510 --> 00:25:57.350 crowd in this moment as the theological witness, as 413 00:25:57.350 --> 00:26:01.150 the Christian witness, as the church witness. And so that's. That's the 414 00:26:01.150 --> 00:26:04.860 kind of mindset I go in with. I have told the stories of healing 415 00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:08.580 there. I've literally sat in my testimony to city council and said, 416 00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:13.300 you know, you're in a position more than most 417 00:26:13.300 --> 00:26:16.340 people to be able to say to somebody, basically, 418 00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:20.580 okay, the resources in place now roll up your mat, 419 00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:23.700 take it, and go to what is now going to be your home. 420 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:27.980 Which is how Jesus spoke to the. To one person who was healed. He said, 421 00:26:27.980 --> 00:26:31.590 roll up your mat and go home. You're. You're. You're. You're free and 422 00:26:31.590 --> 00:26:35.350 clear. You're ready to go. So, so that's kind of the. That's what 423 00:26:35.350 --> 00:26:38.750 I take in there. So it's a teaching 424 00:26:38.750 --> 00:26:42.110 moment. And I. And I've been able to do that with 425 00:26:42.110 --> 00:26:45.869 integrity because they wanted to build a shelter right 426 00:26:45.870 --> 00:26:49.350 right beside my house. I live in a complex in 427 00:26:49.350 --> 00:26:52.790 Southwest D.C. they wanted to put in a family 428 00:26:52.790 --> 00:26:56.550 shelter and my own neighborhood. And so it's not just the 429 00:26:56.550 --> 00:26:59.230 city council like my own. My own kind of condo 430 00:27:00.470 --> 00:27:04.270 board met. And I had just moved in. I hadn't 431 00:27:04.270 --> 00:27:07.710 even lived there two weeks. But they. My condo board met. This was my 432 00:27:07.710 --> 00:27:11.470 introduction to my condo board and my neighbors, they were meeting to 433 00:27:11.470 --> 00:27:15.309 figure out how to torpedo the family homeless shelter. And 434 00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:18.110 I showed up at that meeting and I listened to them all talk about, what 435 00:27:18.110 --> 00:27:21.310 can we do to stop this thing? And then I just. I had to be 436 00:27:21.310 --> 00:27:23.350 the voice in the room to say, I love it. 437 00:27:25.350 --> 00:27:29.170 I love this idea. It should be built here. I 438 00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:32.810 work in the shelters where we're warehousing families. I know the conditions that 439 00:27:32.810 --> 00:27:35.090 they're dealing with. We had had an individual 440 00:27:36.370 --> 00:27:40.210 disappear from the D.C. general Shelter, 441 00:27:40.210 --> 00:27:44.050 which was an abandoned hospital. And we needed a change. 442 00:27:44.050 --> 00:27:47.650 And so I was there with my neighbors and then with my council members 443 00:27:47.890 --> 00:27:51.570 to be able to say, you know, no, the thing that needs to happen, 444 00:27:51.650 --> 00:27:54.370 and it can happen right here in my own backyard, please, 445 00:27:55.710 --> 00:27:59.230 is better, safer shelters that people aren't going to be 446 00:27:59.550 --> 00:28:03.350 impacted the way that they're being now. So this is what I 447 00:28:03.350 --> 00:28:06.710 take in there. The other piece that we know that other groups just don't know 448 00:28:06.710 --> 00:28:10.390 and they can't bring, the experts can't bring this, is that when 449 00:28:10.390 --> 00:28:14.110 I'm meeting with people through our feeding ministries, through our 450 00:28:14.110 --> 00:28:17.590 clothing ministries, through our ID ministry, I'm Hearing their 451 00:28:17.590 --> 00:28:21.350 stories, I'm asking about what they're praying for. This is 452 00:28:21.350 --> 00:28:25.090 the pastoral and not the theological end. I know that 453 00:28:25.090 --> 00:28:28.610 they're praying for jobs. I know that they're praying 454 00:28:28.850 --> 00:28:32.570 for housing. These are the prayers they are sending up to God. These are 455 00:28:32.570 --> 00:28:36.370 the prayers they're asking me to hold with them. I walk into a city 456 00:28:36.370 --> 00:28:40.210 council member's office and I'm talking with their staff or I'm talking directly with them. 457 00:28:40.770 --> 00:28:44.370 I can directly say to you, you have the 458 00:28:44.370 --> 00:28:47.490 power in this moment more than me 459 00:28:48.210 --> 00:28:51.690 and more than any of these experts and caseworkers to help 460 00:28:51.690 --> 00:28:55.450 answer somebody's prayer. God puts tools. Jesus 461 00:28:55.530 --> 00:28:59.250 encourages us to be the hands and feet. You 462 00:28:59.250 --> 00:29:02.810 have that power right in this moment with your vote, with your policy, 463 00:29:03.690 --> 00:29:07.410 to help answer somebody's prayer. The 464 00:29:07.410 --> 00:29:11.250 other groups can't say that. We can say that as the 465 00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:15.050 church, because those are the stories that we get. So. So that's what 466 00:29:15.050 --> 00:29:18.450 it looks. That's what it looks like for me when I'm going into these 467 00:29:18.450 --> 00:29:22.130 settings. I try my best to stay on top of the policy and 468 00:29:22.210 --> 00:29:26.050 on the stats and the statistics and the need and everything 469 00:29:26.050 --> 00:29:29.850 else and best practice. But what we're best positioned 470 00:29:29.850 --> 00:29:33.490 to do is to be the pastoral presence in that way, 471 00:29:33.730 --> 00:29:36.450 and the theological and Christian witness 472 00:29:37.490 --> 00:29:41.330 in a way that really moves the ball forward for people's 473 00:29:41.330 --> 00:29:45.090 prayers, for their safety, for their practical needs, for 474 00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:48.260 meeting those. Those mercy and 475 00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:52.260 justice needs that our communities have. Sounds a little bit like you were in 476 00:29:52.260 --> 00:29:55.940 the minority in terms of that. That shelter 477 00:29:55.940 --> 00:29:59.220 going in near your house. Is that project moving forward? 478 00:30:00.260 --> 00:30:03.980 Yeah. Oh, no, it got built great. Okay. It went 479 00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:06.660 back to the drawing board, what ended up happening. 480 00:30:07.860 --> 00:30:11.340 And people should take. Take encouragement here. It doesn't take that many 481 00:30:11.340 --> 00:30:14.830 voices to go and be positive on this. 482 00:30:14.830 --> 00:30:18.630 Usually when a project like that comes up. Well, it doesn't matter if 483 00:30:18.630 --> 00:30:22.470 it's a project like that. Usually on any policy proposal, council 484 00:30:22.550 --> 00:30:26.230 members, elected leaders, they usually only hear from angry people 485 00:30:26.550 --> 00:30:27.750 who don't want it to happen. 486 00:30:30.150 --> 00:30:33.350 People who are in favor of something don't tend to show up, 487 00:30:34.470 --> 00:30:38.150 and that's a problem. So don't let it 488 00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:42.420 be. Don't think it's a foregone conclusion that, hey, just because this is a. 489 00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:45.780 It's a moral thing to do, it's a. It's the right thing to do, that 490 00:30:45.780 --> 00:30:49.540 that's going to go through. Like people still need to hear support for something, 491 00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:53.660 not just the negative voices. So what ended up happening in 492 00:30:53.660 --> 00:30:57.100 that case is I didn't. I didn't sit there and Slay 493 00:30:57.100 --> 00:31:00.900 Goliath or something. What ended up happening was 494 00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:04.620 that our community, both my condo community 495 00:31:04.620 --> 00:31:08.370 and there, my wider neighborhood said, let's take 496 00:31:08.370 --> 00:31:11.450 one more look at this and find a better and find a solution. 497 00:31:12.330 --> 00:31:16.010 And what ended up happening is it moved not even one block. Not even 498 00:31:16.010 --> 00:31:18.410 one block. It moved half a block 499 00:31:19.530 --> 00:31:22.250 south of its original proposed site. 500 00:31:23.770 --> 00:31:27.610 That's it. You can find ways 501 00:31:27.610 --> 00:31:31.370 forward if you're willing to talk to each other. People aren't always willing, especially 502 00:31:31.370 --> 00:31:34.170 right now, they're not willing to talk to each other. You can find a way 503 00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:37.980 forward. So all, all we needed to do was move it a 504 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:41.740 half a block south. We were good to go and the, and the space got 505 00:31:41.740 --> 00:31:45.540 built and it's been up and running probably close to eight, eight, nine 506 00:31:45.540 --> 00:31:48.900 years now. Oh, all right. All right. So wonderful. Well 507 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:52.660 established. Cool. I, I was asking about that because 508 00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:56.340 there can be. There's those moments of success 509 00:31:56.340 --> 00:31:59.780 and you need to hang on to those there. There's plenty of fit of. Not 510 00:31:59.780 --> 00:32:03.590 failure, but setbacks, disappointments that, that come along 511 00:32:03.590 --> 00:32:07.310 with work like this as well. In any profession, 512 00:32:07.310 --> 00:32:11.150 people are always encouraged to keep some kind of affirmation file, right? 513 00:32:11.150 --> 00:32:14.910 Like, oh, you keep that email that congratulates on something or you tuck away 514 00:32:14.910 --> 00:32:18.590 that story where you really hit the mark and had 515 00:32:18.590 --> 00:32:22.110 success. And I'm wondering if there is a story 516 00:32:22.510 --> 00:32:26.270 that you kind of keep tucked in the mental library that 517 00:32:26.270 --> 00:32:29.630 you can go back to when you feel like, 518 00:32:29.950 --> 00:32:33.750 man, today's gonna not be good. I need this motivation 519 00:32:33.750 --> 00:32:36.990 and I'm glad you asked that. So 520 00:32:37.310 --> 00:32:41.070 once in a while I gotta, you know, we all have pastor friends. 521 00:32:41.470 --> 00:32:45.269 We do stuff for each other. I've had a pastor friend who once in 522 00:32:45.269 --> 00:32:49.110 a while he'll. He'll need to use my office for something. Actually, I'm 523 00:32:49.110 --> 00:32:52.950 gonna call him out. His. Reverend Scott Bostick. He's a member of the Baltimore Washington 524 00:32:52.950 --> 00:32:56.360 Annual Conference. He serves a church in Baltimore right now. Every once in a while, 525 00:32:56.360 --> 00:32:59.640 he would need to use my office for something or he's covered. He covered a 526 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:03.440 wedding for me when my second child was born. It just 527 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.040 happened to fall that way. But when he uses my office, 528 00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:10.200 he'll do stuff like this. He'll walk around in my office and he'll put little. 529 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:14.280 Can you see that? He'll put little post it notes. 530 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:18.960 There we go. Stick them all over the place. So say people like 531 00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:20.600 you. People like you right 532 00:33:22.790 --> 00:33:26.270 as annoying. And I mean, he'll put way too many of them. So I get 533 00:33:26.270 --> 00:33:28.470 rid of most of them. But I'll leave a Couple just to give me a 534 00:33:28.470 --> 00:33:32.150 little smile. Yeah, I'll do that. But I'm glad you asked because this 535 00:33:32.150 --> 00:33:35.270 weekend, actually, I had to preach this weekend at Foundry 536 00:33:36.550 --> 00:33:40.390 and I had to preach on Serve Joyfully, which we're. I'm not in a joyful 537 00:33:40.470 --> 00:33:44.150 mood right now. It's not really. It's not fun 538 00:33:44.150 --> 00:33:47.750 right now. Like military occupation, all this other stuff, my homeless people getting 539 00:33:48.050 --> 00:33:51.690 bounced around. It's not. I'm not happy, as it 540 00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:55.450 were, mood wise. And I was trying to. And I was wrestling with that in 541 00:33:55.450 --> 00:33:59.290 the sermon and telling the congregation this. And one of the stories I 542 00:33:59.290 --> 00:34:02.530 brought up for them and for myself was 543 00:34:03.490 --> 00:34:07.050 I was on a walk a couple of weeks ago with somebody who used to 544 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:09.410 sleep on the Foundry steps. And this person, 545 00:34:11.410 --> 00:34:14.570 they, they had a lot of trust issues. I'm just going to leave it at 546 00:34:14.570 --> 00:34:17.910 that because, you know, we're on a podcast. I don't want to talk too much 547 00:34:17.910 --> 00:34:21.110 about it. Well, I helped that person move 548 00:34:21.270 --> 00:34:24.630 literally from our steps into their apartment. And this is after 549 00:34:25.110 --> 00:34:28.670 he. They had lived there for months. We had worked 550 00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:31.590 together for months. He, that person trusted me. 551 00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:36.070 I had introduced them to a caseworker. We slowly 552 00:34:36.070 --> 00:34:39.790 ID process all of that stuff, got that person into 553 00:34:39.790 --> 00:34:43.450 housing, and then I had the opportunity because they 554 00:34:43.450 --> 00:34:47.010 trusted me, to pick them up in the car with 555 00:34:47.010 --> 00:34:50.650 another person from our church. We cleaned out their 556 00:34:50.650 --> 00:34:53.890 storage unit, we took them to their apartment, 557 00:34:54.290 --> 00:34:58.050 and they slept in there for the first time indoors in years. 558 00:34:58.930 --> 00:35:02.690 And I was on this walk with them a couple of weeks ago 559 00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:06.410 and reminding them about this and kind 560 00:35:06.410 --> 00:35:10.210 of nudging them a little bit because one item that they had in the storage 561 00:35:10.210 --> 00:35:12.870 locker were just these dumbbells, 562 00:35:14.150 --> 00:35:17.790 like just a couple of shirts and some shorts and then literal 563 00:35:17.790 --> 00:35:19.750 weights. Okay. 564 00:35:21.430 --> 00:35:24.990 And I was like, you realize you were just having us move around. Dead weight 565 00:35:24.990 --> 00:35:28.590 for you, right? All right. When we moved you into your 566 00:35:28.590 --> 00:35:32.390 apartment, and they were like, yeah, I've still 567 00:35:32.390 --> 00:35:35.990 got the weight at the apartment, but I've been housed now 568 00:35:35.990 --> 00:35:39.720 for. For eight years. It's been eight years since we did 569 00:35:39.720 --> 00:35:43.480 that. That makes. That is 570 00:35:43.640 --> 00:35:47.240 a space where I am quite joyful in my 571 00:35:47.240 --> 00:35:50.800 service and one that I do hold on 572 00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.960 to, especially right now when, 573 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.440 you know, both at our city level in the district, but also at the federal 574 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.160 level, massive cuts are happening to the types of 575 00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:05.480 things that were in place to help get this person housed. And it worked. 576 00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:09.080 And if they didn't have that, they never would have been housed and they wouldn't 577 00:36:09.080 --> 00:36:12.800 have been able to stay housed if it wasn't Permanent supportive housing. They 578 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.520 would have been back on the street immediately. It would have cost us more to 579 00:36:15.520 --> 00:36:19.320 have them on the street. It would have cost them more physically, 580 00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:23.040 mentally, spiritually to be on the street. You know, I 581 00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:26.200 keep that. I keep stories like that around because 582 00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:30.360 when the talking points are all, housing first doesn't work, 583 00:36:32.870 --> 00:36:35.710 Housing doesn't work. And those are the talking points that are out there right now. 584 00:36:35.710 --> 00:36:39.030 And the cuts that we're seeing, I'm like, one, it does work. 585 00:36:40.230 --> 00:36:43.270 Two, I've seen it work, and I've seen it make real 586 00:36:43.350 --> 00:36:46.710 transformative difference in people's lives. 587 00:36:47.430 --> 00:36:50.550 And they can testify to it. And I can testify to it. 588 00:36:52.150 --> 00:36:55.750 You know, I remember you telling me at some point 589 00:36:56.310 --> 00:37:00.150 over our conversations over the years, it's such a. 590 00:37:00.830 --> 00:37:04.510 Maybe it was even flippant. You were being flippant. But I was asking 591 00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:07.390 about how do we deal with 592 00:37:08.110 --> 00:37:11.870 homelessness? And your response was like, 593 00:37:11.870 --> 00:37:15.590 well, the only people that are. The only way to overcome homelessness is to get 594 00:37:15.590 --> 00:37:19.390 people into housing, which is 595 00:37:19.390 --> 00:37:21.870 so simplistic. And yet the matter of. 596 00:37:23.710 --> 00:37:27.310 Well, it's the heart of the matter, right? Yeah. 597 00:37:27.470 --> 00:37:31.310 I think one thing that maybe people wonder about is 598 00:37:32.900 --> 00:37:35.460 we've tried. We've tried to be careful with our language. 599 00:37:37.460 --> 00:37:41.140 So because it makes a difference, like, words have power. It's just true. 600 00:37:42.980 --> 00:37:46.740 So we've worked really hard not to call people 601 00:37:47.140 --> 00:37:50.900 homeless. They're just. Because that. 602 00:37:50.900 --> 00:37:54.700 It in your brain, you know, suddenly 603 00:37:54.700 --> 00:37:58.400 you're thinking, oh, well, that person's homeless. Like, it's sort of permanent label 604 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.760 on somebody, and it makes it seem like it can't move. 605 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.640 It's not true. Like, it's just a person. They're experiencing 606 00:38:05.640 --> 00:38:08.880 homelessness. Like, right now, they do not live indoors. 607 00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.800 That's. That's what's true. If you put them 608 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:14.560 indoors, they're just your neighbor. 609 00:38:16.240 --> 00:38:19.920 Okay. Yeah. This is amazing how the whole identity changes. Yeah. 610 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:23.760 They were your neighbor before experiencing homelessness. Now they're just a neighbor 611 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.320 who's also indoors. So, yes, 612 00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.840 as the simplistic. The math is always the same on this one. 613 00:38:31.640 --> 00:38:34.600 If you are housed, you are not homeless. 614 00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:40.040 That that's all there is to it. And if you. So 615 00:38:40.120 --> 00:38:43.800 the complexity comes with, like, how many. You know, how much housing is available, 616 00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:47.760 is it affordable? What types of barriers exist to getting into the 617 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:51.200 housing. That's where the 618 00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:54.800 complexity comes in. And are we allocating the types of resources 619 00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:56.760 necessary to get people in, or are we. 620 00:38:59.140 --> 00:39:02.260 Those are the complex parts. But as far as, like, who is 621 00:39:02.260 --> 00:39:05.940 unhoused and who is housed, it's just whoever's not 622 00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:09.140 in housing. So put them in housing and they are now no longer 623 00:39:09.140 --> 00:39:12.620 unhoused. Well, the ID ministry to me became one of those 624 00:39:12.620 --> 00:39:16.180 logical first steps to removing a barrier to 625 00:39:16.420 --> 00:39:20.180 housing. And undoubtedly somebody else 626 00:39:20.180 --> 00:39:23.860 is listening to this and thinking the same thing. Do you have advice 627 00:39:23.860 --> 00:39:27.540 of where to start for empowering 628 00:39:27.540 --> 00:39:31.100 people to find their IDs or to start 629 00:39:31.100 --> 00:39:34.460 an assistive program like you're running through Foundry? 630 00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:38.620 Yeah. Oh, good. Great, great stuff, Ryan. I. We 631 00:39:38.620 --> 00:39:41.740 have been as forthright as we can be. We'll support 632 00:39:42.700 --> 00:39:46.220 anyone, church, community, group, whatever. If 633 00:39:46.220 --> 00:39:49.940 somebody wanted to start an ID ministry similar to what we have 634 00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:53.230 going, we'll share with you whatever you want. 635 00:39:54.590 --> 00:39:58.310 Because we had to get really good at every 636 00:39:58.310 --> 00:40:01.870 state. Plus the multiple jurisdiction, 637 00:40:01.870 --> 00:40:05.470 like New York City, for example, is a separate jurisdiction than 638 00:40:05.470 --> 00:40:09.070 New York State. New York City has their own birth certificates. 639 00:40:09.310 --> 00:40:12.830 You, you may not, you're not going to know that unless you were born there. 640 00:40:13.550 --> 00:40:17.310 So we had to get really good at that. So we keep 641 00:40:18.040 --> 00:40:21.880 what we call our state book. We've got like kind of the shortest path 642 00:40:22.600 --> 00:40:26.400 for every jurisdiction that you can think of. It would take 643 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:30.000 you forever to try and put that together if you were trying to start something 644 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.640 new. So if you want to start something new, you can call us, you can 645 00:40:32.640 --> 00:40:36.480 reach out to us, emails, and we'll help provide that information so that 646 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:40.200 you could get going. There's a 647 00:40:40.200 --> 00:40:43.560 few organizations like this sincerely 648 00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:47.810 has been coming along. Arizona is the one that 649 00:40:47.810 --> 00:40:51.290 comes to mind immediately. They've actually got like a public private partnership 650 00:40:52.090 --> 00:40:55.770 in place that does some of this. There have been more that have 651 00:40:55.930 --> 00:40:58.890 popped up because of states that have 652 00:40:59.850 --> 00:41:03.369 voter ID laws. So there's a nationwide group 653 00:41:04.010 --> 00:41:07.170 called Vote Ride that does this to help 654 00:41:07.170 --> 00:41:10.730 individuals get in place what they need for like a voter id. 655 00:41:10.890 --> 00:41:14.710 But the process is the exact same. So all of 656 00:41:14.710 --> 00:41:18.150 the baseline foundational process is the exact same for getting the ID 657 00:41:18.550 --> 00:41:22.270 as for then getting a voter id. So you can even. There's probably, there 658 00:41:22.270 --> 00:41:25.430 might be one, one of those kind of chapters in your area. 659 00:41:26.710 --> 00:41:30.430 And you could, you could either learn from them, you 660 00:41:30.430 --> 00:41:33.910 could volunteer with them, I guess, if you want to work on voter ID stuff. 661 00:41:34.550 --> 00:41:37.870 But you could also learn from them some of the process in your local area 662 00:41:37.870 --> 00:41:41.510 if you then wanted to do something just focused around non 663 00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:44.070 driver's IDs, birth certificate, Social Security card. 664 00:41:45.340 --> 00:41:48.460 Because everybody, and it doesn't matter, you know, everybody wants people 665 00:41:50.220 --> 00:41:53.940 off the street, as it were. There's, there's not a group that's out there, 666 00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:57.420 like I really want people. No one is saying that. 667 00:41:58.220 --> 00:42:01.980 No one's out there saying that. So it doesn't, it doesn't matter political stripe on 668 00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:05.740 this one. We disagree a little bit about how best to do it, 669 00:42:06.220 --> 00:42:09.420 but everybody wants it to happen. Yeah, yeah. 670 00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:13.580 Idaho is going to be a barrier either way. Whatever, 671 00:42:13.580 --> 00:42:17.220 whatever route you choose ID as a barrier either 672 00:42:17.220 --> 00:42:20.420 way. So that's what I would kind of say, like, 673 00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:24.460 you access some of the resources that are already there. We are 674 00:42:24.460 --> 00:42:28.180 here. We are so happy to help support somebody if they want to 675 00:42:28.180 --> 00:42:31.980 launch something. And just let us know, 676 00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:35.380 like, don't reinvent the wheel. Like, we got a really good wheel over here. 677 00:42:36.580 --> 00:42:40.320 Let us know. Cool. Will they find contact information through, 678 00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:44.120 like, the church website? Church website, absolutely. Otherwise, it's 679 00:42:44.120 --> 00:42:44.320 just 680 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:48.160 idministryounderumc.org 681 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:52.200 perfect. All right. Well, Ben, always good to talk to you. Thanks so 682 00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:55.840 much for giving the time this morning. 100%. Ryan. Thank you for 683 00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:59.640 reaching out. Blessings on you and your continued ministry as you share the story 684 00:42:59.640 --> 00:43:03.440 for us. Appreciate it. Thanks, man. That 685 00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:06.840 wraps up this episode of Compass, Finding Spirituality in the 686 00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:10.390 Everyday Life. If you would like to dive deeper into anything that we've talked about 687 00:43:10.390 --> 00:43:12.070 today, be sure to visit our 688 00:43:12.070 --> 00:43:14.950 website@umc.org 689 00:43:15.270 --> 00:43:19.110 Compass you'll find episode notes, helpful links, and even more 690 00:43:19.110 --> 00:43:22.870 episodes that you can check out right there. A big thank you goes out 691 00:43:22.870 --> 00:43:26.630 to the amazing team at United Methodist Communications for making this 692 00:43:26.630 --> 00:43:30.190 podcast possible. We're grateful for the support and 693 00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:33.960 dedication behind the scenes. And of course, if you have, if you haven't already, we'd 694 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.720 love for you to subscribe, rate and review Compass. Wherever you 695 00:43:37.720 --> 00:43:41.520 get your podcasts, it only takes a moment. It really helps more folks 696 00:43:41.520 --> 00:43:45.280 find the podcast and for us to connect with. More people to talk to. 697 00:43:45.680 --> 00:43:49.440 Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time. Peace.