WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:04.120 There just might be a healthier way for you to read the 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.680 Bible. Hey, 3 00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:11.560 this is Compass Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. My name is 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.800 Ryan Dunn and in today's episode I'm having a 5 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:18.440 conversation with Reverend Zachary Lambert, pastor 6 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.920 of Restore Austin and author of Better 7 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:25.760 Ways to Read the Bible. Zach notes that 8 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.020 there are some incredibly popular, yet horrible harmful 9 00:00:29.020 --> 00:00:32.460 lenses through which we often try to read the Bible. 10 00:00:32.860 --> 00:00:36.500 So he proposes that there are some alternative lenses through which 11 00:00:36.500 --> 00:00:40.300 we may read the Bible that lead us more towards interpretations 12 00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:43.900 and ideals of flourishing. We also 13 00:00:44.060 --> 00:00:47.580 get into a curiosity driven approach to faith. 14 00:00:48.060 --> 00:00:51.820 We get into leading communities of healing and growth and talking about 15 00:00:51.820 --> 00:00:55.440 the truth of the Bible. It's a. It's a fun talk. If 16 00:00:55.440 --> 00:00:59.160 conversations like this are interesting or valuable to you, I'd really 17 00:00:59.160 --> 00:01:02.880 appreciate it. If you hit the subscribe button on Spotify, Apple, 18 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:06.320 podcasts, YouTube, whatever platform you might be hearing this 19 00:01:06.320 --> 00:01:10.160 broadcast upon, it's always really, really helpful to leave a 20 00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:13.840 little review. For example, on Spotify, you hit that little star button 21 00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:17.200 and then give us a five star rating or, well, whatever number of 22 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:21.000 stars you think is appropriate. Thank you so much for 23 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:24.670 that. Before we officially enter the conversation, 24 00:01:24.670 --> 00:01:28.150 I do want to let you know a little bit more about 25 00:01:28.150 --> 00:01:31.710 Zach Lambert. It's funny, because I heard Zach on 26 00:01:31.710 --> 00:01:35.110 another podcast and I thought that he would be really interesting to speak with. 27 00:01:35.430 --> 00:01:39.070 The next day, I got an email announcing that Zach and the 28 00:01:39.070 --> 00:01:42.710 church of Restore Austin were joining my denomination, 29 00:01:42.710 --> 00:01:46.190 the United Methodist Church. So I took that as a little bit of a nudge 30 00:01:46.190 --> 00:01:49.910 to reach out to Zach. Zach is the lead pastor and one of 31 00:01:49.910 --> 00:01:53.420 the founders of Restore Austin, which is a church focusing on grace, 32 00:01:54.050 --> 00:01:57.490 authenticity, diversity and partnerships. Of course, in Austin, 33 00:01:57.490 --> 00:02:00.890 Texas, Zach's own spiritual journey is a 34 00:02:00.890 --> 00:02:04.450 colorful one. It involves him getting kicked out of a few different religious 35 00:02:04.450 --> 00:02:08.250 institutions. He is the author of Better Ways 36 00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:11.810 to Read the Bible, which is all about transforming the Bible 37 00:02:12.050 --> 00:02:15.410 from a weapon that condemns, oppresses and 38 00:02:15.410 --> 00:02:19.140 excludes into a tool that liberates. And 39 00:02:19.140 --> 00:02:22.820 to learn more, you're going to just have to listen to Zach. So let's get 40 00:02:22.820 --> 00:02:26.500 into it. Zach Lambert, healthy ways to Read the Bible and more 41 00:02:26.500 --> 00:02:30.220 on the Compass podcast. Well, Zach, 42 00:02:30.220 --> 00:02:33.780 I'm looking forward to talking about the Bible with you, but first 43 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:36.540 questions first. Just how goes it with your soul today? 44 00:02:37.740 --> 00:02:41.540 Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for having me on. And thanks for that very 45 00:02:41.540 --> 00:02:45.380 pastoral question and Wesleyan question. I love that I'm 46 00:02:45.380 --> 00:02:48.580 in a season of a lot of busyness. I think that's true for a lot 47 00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:52.300 of us. And I think that I've fallen prey over 48 00:02:52.300 --> 00:02:55.940 the years to the glorification of busyness. You know, like we're 49 00:02:55.940 --> 00:02:59.780 really only doing great work with God and 50 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:03.500 in the world if we're busy and really actively 51 00:03:03.500 --> 00:03:07.100 trying to set aside margin for various things, whether 52 00:03:07.100 --> 00:03:10.700 it's family or personal enrichment. My dad also got a really serious 53 00:03:10.700 --> 00:03:14.340 cancer diagnosis back in April and probably only has 54 00:03:14.340 --> 00:03:18.140 about 8 or 12 months to live. And so that's really, 55 00:03:18.140 --> 00:03:21.990 I think, also caused me to, I think, see time a little 56 00:03:21.990 --> 00:03:25.630 differently, you know, and realize that everything that we do, 57 00:03:25.630 --> 00:03:29.430 every second we have is precious, how we choose to spend those 58 00:03:29.750 --> 00:03:32.710 matters. And so instead of pursuing 59 00:03:33.030 --> 00:03:36.470 busyness for busyness sake, I want to prioritize 60 00:03:36.630 --> 00:03:40.310 as much as possible. And I found that that really has been good for my 61 00:03:40.310 --> 00:03:43.990 soul. Even when things feel heavy, being able to step into things 62 00:03:43.990 --> 00:03:47.580 that really deeply matter has made all the difference. Yeah. 63 00:03:47.580 --> 00:03:50.940 Do you have any advice for managing the tension of 64 00:03:51.100 --> 00:03:54.700 realizing that time is finite so we want to make the most of it. Like 65 00:03:54.700 --> 00:03:58.060 we want to make our checklist and make sure that we have all the items 66 00:03:58.620 --> 00:04:01.980 checked off and yet still being open 67 00:04:02.220 --> 00:04:05.380 towards the, I don't know, the movement of 68 00:04:05.380 --> 00:04:08.900 refreshment or a sense of the spiritual or 69 00:04:08.900 --> 00:04:12.660 contemplation. Yeah. You know, not to give the 70 00:04:12.660 --> 00:04:15.580 Sunday school answer, but Jesus gives 71 00:04:16.530 --> 00:04:20.370 good answer. All right, next question. Just kidding. Jesus, I 72 00:04:20.370 --> 00:04:24.050 think, does give us a really great model of, you know, Jesus was what I 73 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:27.570 would call like an essentialist. There's a great book that was written like a decade 74 00:04:27.570 --> 00:04:31.010 ago called Essentialism, and it's about kind of how we make these 75 00:04:31.010 --> 00:04:34.730 decisions around what we choose to say yes to and no to. I think 76 00:04:34.730 --> 00:04:38.450 Jesus was very strict about saying yes to the things that mattered most. 77 00:04:39.010 --> 00:04:42.370 Not just so that he could have kind of the checklist and the clear schedule, 78 00:04:42.370 --> 00:04:46.110 but also so that he could have margin when he was interrupted 79 00:04:46.110 --> 00:04:49.430 by things that ended up really mattering. You know, I think for a lot of 80 00:04:49.430 --> 00:04:53.230 us, we're so over scheduled that we get interrupted by things that really 81 00:04:53.230 --> 00:04:56.750 matter. We almost don't have time to stop, you know, And I think about how 82 00:04:56.750 --> 00:05:00.550 Jesus, whether it was the. The, you know, the bleeding woman or 83 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:03.950 the woman at the well, you know, Jairus's daughter, that needed to be healed. There 84 00:05:03.950 --> 00:05:07.230 were all these kinds of things that he was able to stop and 85 00:05:07.230 --> 00:05:10.950 redirect for because he had only committed himself to the things 86 00:05:10.950 --> 00:05:14.220 that kind of mattered most. And then lastly, you know, 87 00:05:14.620 --> 00:05:18.100 he was very committed to getting away, having time 88 00:05:18.100 --> 00:05:21.500 alone, having time with the Father in prayer, contemplation, 89 00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:25.260 meditation, those kinds of things. And so I think he really does give us, 90 00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:28.979 it feels trite, but Jesus really does give us a good 91 00:05:28.979 --> 00:05:32.740 example, I think, of how we can employ this strategy in 92 00:05:32.740 --> 00:05:36.260 our lives. All right. And of course we 93 00:05:36.260 --> 00:05:39.980 learn about Jesus through the Bible. This is my pro 94 00:05:39.980 --> 00:05:43.770 transition here. Zach, back on the 95 00:05:43.770 --> 00:05:47.490 topic, I feel. Like you've probably had to feel this. 96 00:05:47.490 --> 00:05:51.010 Question and it is a loaded question. Oftentimes when 97 00:05:51.010 --> 00:05:54.850 somebody visits your church and they ask, are you a 98 00:05:54.850 --> 00:05:58.650 Bible believing church? How might you address that question within 99 00:05:58.650 --> 00:06:02.450 the context of Restore Austin? Yes. So I'm 100 00:06:02.450 --> 00:06:06.170 a big lead with curiosity guy. And so I 101 00:06:06.170 --> 00:06:09.930 would immediately ask more questions, you know, I would ask 102 00:06:09.930 --> 00:06:13.770 what that means, what is the Bible to them? What does being, quote unquote, Bible 103 00:06:13.770 --> 00:06:17.430 believing mean? Because usually there's something underneath that 104 00:06:17.430 --> 00:06:21.270 there's a specific, usually ideology or theology that's been 105 00:06:21.350 --> 00:06:24.950 connected to being Bible believing that they 106 00:06:24.950 --> 00:06:28.630 now are. That's the real question behind the question, so to speak. 107 00:06:28.630 --> 00:06:32.270 Right. So sometimes this is about like women's roles in the church, you know, and 108 00:06:32.270 --> 00:06:35.790 so what they've been told is, hey, the Bible clearly states that women 109 00:06:35.790 --> 00:06:39.190 cannot be in any kind of leadership role or preaching in the church. And so 110 00:06:39.190 --> 00:06:42.830 if you are a Bible believing Christian and you go to a Bible 111 00:06:42.830 --> 00:06:46.670 believing church, then they will teach or you will believe that women have 112 00:06:46.670 --> 00:06:50.430 to be subservient to men in the church. And so that's actually the question 113 00:06:50.430 --> 00:06:54.190 that they're asking. You know, so I try to get 114 00:06:54.190 --> 00:06:57.990 kind of beneath the surface, but let's assume that I can't. You know, 115 00:06:57.990 --> 00:07:01.710 let's assume that I only have one option. I would say, I think kind 116 00:07:01.710 --> 00:07:05.110 of tongue in cheek. I would say, well, the Bible doesn't actually like 117 00:07:05.270 --> 00:07:08.710 say anything that we are supposed to believe. The biblical 118 00:07:08.710 --> 00:07:12.390 authors say a lot of different things that I think we have to wrestle 119 00:07:12.390 --> 00:07:16.230 with and choose to interpret and apply to our 120 00:07:16.230 --> 00:07:20.050 lives. But I've really tried to. I don't 121 00:07:20.050 --> 00:07:22.650 know what the correct word is, but whatever the opposite of 122 00:07:22.650 --> 00:07:25.810 anthromorphize is, I don't say that word correctly. 123 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:29.810 Anthropomorphize. Anthropomorphize. Yes, yes, anthropomorphize. That's the 124 00:07:29.810 --> 00:07:32.210 word. And I don't know the opposite of it either. 125 00:07:33.809 --> 00:07:36.770 We try to unanthropomorphize the Bible 126 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:41.490 by saying the Bible is not a person, the Bible doesn't say anything. 127 00:07:41.730 --> 00:07:45.460 And I think that is really a core tool 128 00:07:45.460 --> 00:07:49.140 of the weaponization of Scripture is to say the Bible says, when the 129 00:07:49.140 --> 00:07:52.660 Bible is written by a collection of you know, 40 130 00:07:52.660 --> 00:07:56.500 plus authors across three different continents over a few thousand 131 00:07:56.500 --> 00:07:59.860 years. It's got 10 plus genres of literature. 132 00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:03.980 And the biblical authors are not always univocal. They 133 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:06.900 don't all say the same things, they're not monolithic, they don't come from the same 134 00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:10.500 places, they argue about different things. And so 135 00:08:10.580 --> 00:08:14.420 I think, are you a Bible believing church or a Bible believing pastor? 136 00:08:14.740 --> 00:08:18.480 Really kind of cheapens I think what the Bible actually is. 137 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.200 And so I'd answer it with some form of that probably. Okay, 138 00:08:22.200 --> 00:08:25.960 well you've noted the Bible is not a person. What would you describe the Bible 139 00:08:25.960 --> 00:08:29.760 as being? The Bible really is, I think, a collection of 140 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:33.760 writings where humans are doing their best to 141 00:08:33.760 --> 00:08:37.480 describe who God is and who we are and how God is 142 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:41.160 at work in the world, in and through us and nature and all the 143 00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:44.810 rest of the. Now I actually am very much believe that 144 00:08:44.970 --> 00:08:48.410 the Spirit of God has been and continues to be involved with 145 00:08:48.650 --> 00:08:52.050 the writing of scripture and the interpretation of 146 00:08:52.050 --> 00:08:55.810 scripture. I believe in what would be classically called the 147 00:08:55.810 --> 00:08:59.570 inspiration of Scripture by God through the power of the Holy Spirit. But 148 00:08:59.570 --> 00:09:03.370 I don't think that takes away or negates the humanness of the 149 00:09:03.370 --> 00:09:06.970 text either. There's a great book called the Word of a 150 00:09:06.970 --> 00:09:10.330 Humble God by Karen Keane, who's a scholar and 151 00:09:10.570 --> 00:09:14.190 a, a Bible teacher. And she describes 152 00:09:14.270 --> 00:09:17.990 inspiration in a way that basically is that God in 153 00:09:17.990 --> 00:09:21.790 God's humility, meets us and met the 154 00:09:21.790 --> 00:09:25.550 biblical authors exactly where they were in all their humanness and all their 155 00:09:25.550 --> 00:09:29.310 understanding, and called them forward to be in 156 00:09:29.310 --> 00:09:32.870 partnership with God as they described what was 157 00:09:32.870 --> 00:09:36.510 happening in the world around them and their encounters with God and all of that. 158 00:09:36.510 --> 00:09:40.050 And so that's, I think, what the Bible is, so to 159 00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:43.690 speak, very like from a statistical perspective, I 160 00:09:43.690 --> 00:09:47.450 guess the Bible is the Protestant Bible at 161 00:09:47.450 --> 00:09:51.090 least is 66 books, as I said, written by a bunch of different 162 00:09:51.090 --> 00:09:54.450 authors about a bunch of different subjects in different genres. 163 00:09:54.690 --> 00:09:58.410 So the Bible is not a book per se. It really is more of 164 00:09:58.410 --> 00:10:02.210 a library, I think is the healthiest way to think about it. A lot 165 00:10:02.210 --> 00:10:05.810 of my work is centered in social media, especially representing 166 00:10:05.810 --> 00:10:09.470 the denomination in the United Methodist Church. Most 167 00:10:09.470 --> 00:10:13.190 vocal critics of the stuff that we post on 168 00:10:13.190 --> 00:10:16.910 those accounts are not people from outside the church. I mean this in 169 00:10:16.910 --> 00:10:20.670 terms of the church universal. They're not non believers or atheists 170 00:10:20.670 --> 00:10:24.350 or whatever the most vocal critics are. Those 171 00:10:24.430 --> 00:10:28.230 who are, are professing to be within the church. 172 00:10:28.230 --> 00:10:31.350 And oftentimes it comes around to biblical 173 00:10:31.350 --> 00:10:35.080 interpretation and that what we espouse the 174 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.920 Bible might say is not in agreement with what they think the Bible might 175 00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:42.280 say. And oftentimes they're saying, well, you know, I take the Bible literally. 176 00:10:42.680 --> 00:10:46.480 Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it. Do you believe that there is 177 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:50.040 such. A thing as a true biblical literalist? Like, 178 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.720 can we just take the Bible and be like, yep, there it is, that's what 179 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:57.320 it says. It's so simple. Let's do it. It's funny, that's such a great question. 180 00:10:58.040 --> 00:11:01.880 I don't think there are actual Bible literalists, Biblical literalists. And 181 00:11:03.010 --> 00:11:06.770 I think that, and this is really where I try to build bridges with 182 00:11:06.770 --> 00:11:09.650 people who maybe come from more literalistic traditions 183 00:11:10.370 --> 00:11:13.970 is to say, oh, they're absolutely literal things in the Bible, 184 00:11:13.970 --> 00:11:17.770 right? I'm not anti literal. Like when Jesus said, the most important 185 00:11:17.770 --> 00:11:21.050 thing is to love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself, he meant 186 00:11:21.050 --> 00:11:24.690 that literally. That was very literal, you know. But what I would say is, hey, 187 00:11:24.690 --> 00:11:28.290 even you, a self proclaimed biblical literalist, do not 188 00:11:28.670 --> 00:11:32.270 take the Bible, every word of it literally. Let's just start in Proverbs, 189 00:11:32.270 --> 00:11:35.870 you know, where it says things like, the lazy man gets eaten by the lion. 190 00:11:36.190 --> 00:11:39.550 You have realized that's not a statement of 191 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.230 literal fact. That is a, you know, 192 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:46.990 colloquial wisdom statement to say, don't be lazy, 193 00:11:46.990 --> 00:11:50.030 right? And they'll say, well, proverbs, you know, that's different. 194 00:11:50.510 --> 00:11:54.270 And I'll say, well, it is different, but there are a lot of, you know, 195 00:11:54.270 --> 00:11:58.070 their wisdom genre literature all over scripture, not 196 00:11:58.070 --> 00:12:01.770 just in proverbs. And I'll say, well, let's get a New Testament example. 197 00:12:01.770 --> 00:12:05.530 You know, we have a text like, I do not allow 198 00:12:05.530 --> 00:12:09.250 a woman to teach, you know, from Paul or whoever wrote Timothy. And it's right 199 00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:12.890 next to a command. And so they would say, I take that literally. 200 00:12:12.970 --> 00:12:15.890 We do not allow women to teach in our church. But it's right next to 201 00:12:15.890 --> 00:12:19.730 a command that says men everywhere should lift up their hands when they 202 00:12:19.730 --> 00:12:23.370 sing praise and we should all greet each other with a holy kiss. 203 00:12:23.770 --> 00:12:27.180 And I would say, you don't do those things. You know what I mean? Like, 204 00:12:27.180 --> 00:12:30.860 you don't, you don't require every man in your church to 205 00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:34.020 raise their hands when they sing that. You don't, I know that. 206 00:12:34.900 --> 00:12:38.420 And you don't greet everyone in church with a holy kiss. We have said 207 00:12:38.660 --> 00:12:42.500 those things must be cultural or contextual. They must be 208 00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:46.260 descriptive of something not prescriptive for all time. 209 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:50.500 But we've taken this other part of it and said, well, no, that is both 210 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:54.340 descriptive of a time and prescriptive for all time. And I'm not even 211 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:57.820 arguing that you're wrong. I think I would argue that you are wrong. But in 212 00:12:57.820 --> 00:13:01.360 this moment right now, all I'm saying is we're all doing this. 213 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.480 None of us are taking all of it literally. We're all kind of trying to 214 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.200 do the best we can to understand it in context. 215 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:11.840 Zach, your book is Better Ways to Read the Bible. And in there you suggest 216 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:15.560 that a pursuit of literalism can 217 00:13:15.560 --> 00:13:18.960 actually be harmful. Can you tell us a little bit about what you mean by 218 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.720 that? Absolutely. I think a woodenly 219 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.920 literalistic understanding of every part of Scripture 220 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.050 ends up becoming problematic very quickly, especially when 221 00:13:30.050 --> 00:13:33.810 we transform scripture into. Try to make it into some kind 222 00:13:33.810 --> 00:13:37.330 of like a science textbook or a historical textbook or something like that. 223 00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:40.770 The example I go really deep into in the book is from 224 00:13:40.770 --> 00:13:44.410 Genesis 1 through 3, the creation of the world. There have long 225 00:13:44.410 --> 00:13:46.930 been debates about evolution, 226 00:13:47.490 --> 00:13:50.610 creationism, and is. Are Genesis 1 and 2 227 00:13:51.010 --> 00:13:54.810 a literal, scientific recounting of the creation of 228 00:13:54.810 --> 00:13:58.570 the world by God? Are the days literal days? How old is the earth? 229 00:13:58.570 --> 00:14:02.030 I mean, you know, entire institutions have been built to 230 00:14:02.030 --> 00:14:05.710 answer these questions or to defend certain points of view related 231 00:14:05.710 --> 00:14:08.750 to those questions. And again, I'm not actually. 232 00:14:09.470 --> 00:14:13.190 I don't actually care a ton about debating the age of the earth. 233 00:14:13.190 --> 00:14:16.750 What I care much more about is that a lot of people who would say, 234 00:14:17.390 --> 00:14:21.150 who would apply wooden literalism to Genesis 1 and 2 have said, this 235 00:14:21.150 --> 00:14:24.910 is what you believe. If you're a Christian. You know, you believe in 236 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:28.670 Jesus and you believe in faith in God, but also 237 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:32.710 you believe that the earth is 6,000 years old, that God created it in 238 00:14:32.710 --> 00:14:36.430 six literal days, that Adam and Eve are the literal parents of all human 239 00:14:36.430 --> 00:14:40.270 beings. And if you don't, then that is not a Christian belief 240 00:14:40.270 --> 00:14:43.350 anymore because a Christian believes that. And I will tell you, I know so many 241 00:14:43.350 --> 00:14:47.150 people, including a lot of people in our church, who self selected out of 242 00:14:47.150 --> 00:14:50.190 Christianity because they were told a Christian has to believe 243 00:14:50.910 --> 00:14:54.710 in this understanding of science or the creation of the world. And then they take 244 00:14:54.710 --> 00:14:58.000 a freshman biology course in college and they become 245 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.760 convinced of evolution and adaptation and an old 246 00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:05.360 earth and carbon dating and all these things. And they think, well, 247 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.000 I've been told my whole life a Christian believes the earth is 6,000 years old. 248 00:15:09.160 --> 00:15:12.680 I don't believe that anymore, so I must not be a Christian anymore. And they 249 00:15:12.680 --> 00:15:16.280 leave the faith. And I think those consequences are incredibly 250 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.200 damaging. Yeah, all right, I can see that. There's a lot of thinking, 251 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:24.040 though, that says if. If one part of the Bible is not true. 252 00:15:24.040 --> 00:15:27.700 How can you trust any of it? Have you heard qu questions around that? 253 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:31.420 Do you have some response to it? For sure? I think my response to it 254 00:15:31.420 --> 00:15:34.820 is to say I'm actually not saying that Genesis 1 and 2 is not true. 255 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:39.700 And I think that is an important distinction. I would say that 256 00:15:40.340 --> 00:15:44.020 storytelling is not an inferior way of communicating truth. 257 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:47.500 Let's go back to the lazy man gets eaten by the lion again, right? That 258 00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:51.300 statement is not literal, but in some ways it's true. Right. 259 00:15:51.380 --> 00:15:54.900 If you practice habitual laziness, then you will have 260 00:15:55.140 --> 00:15:58.660 destruction in your life. You know, that's, that's 261 00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:02.540 part of what we see borne out in our society. Right. And so 262 00:16:02.540 --> 00:16:05.740 there is truth in that statement, even if it's not literally 263 00:16:05.740 --> 00:16:09.300 prescriptive. And so we have to ask like what is the author trying to 264 00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:12.900 do and what is God trying to do through the text in this specific 265 00:16:12.900 --> 00:16:16.660 thing? So back to Genesis 1 and 2. The whole purpose of 266 00:16:16.660 --> 00:16:20.020 the creation narrative was to say that, that, that 267 00:16:20.020 --> 00:16:23.070 Yahweh our God or the, the Jewish God at the time 268 00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:27.550 was the kind of like preeminent God among 269 00:16:27.630 --> 00:16:31.230 all the other gods of the time and all the other 270 00:16:31.390 --> 00:16:34.990 religions of the time. They had their own creation stories. I talk about them in 271 00:16:34.990 --> 00:16:38.790 the book. They had a lot of similar through lines to Genesis 1 and 2, 272 00:16:38.790 --> 00:16:41.830 but they were really different. And Genesis 1 and 2 was written later than all 273 00:16:41.830 --> 00:16:45.230 of them. It was written in response to them. But there were some really important 274 00:16:45.230 --> 00:16:48.830 distinctions. So like the main one is that 275 00:16:50.270 --> 00:16:54.110 Yahweh created humans as co laborers alongside God 276 00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:57.070 and in God's image and in God's likeness, this very 277 00:16:57.230 --> 00:17:00.510 beautifully elevated space. Whereas 278 00:17:00.590 --> 00:17:04.230 basically every other God in religion at the time created humans 279 00:17:04.230 --> 00:17:08.070 to do their work because they were tired of doing all the work like 280 00:17:08.070 --> 00:17:11.830 the harvest or whatever else. Right. And so humans are really created by 281 00:17:11.830 --> 00:17:14.830 those gods to be slaves. Well, what the writers of 282 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.400 Genesis 1 and 2 were saying was like, no, no, no, we're not just like 283 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:21.920 God's random slaves put here to assume the 284 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:25.680 drudgery of the gods. We've actually been created to co labor 285 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.360 alongside God to be co creators. And that's because we 286 00:17:29.360 --> 00:17:32.880 are made in God's image and likeness. In fact, we bear 287 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.760 the divine imprint wherever we go. And that was 288 00:17:36.760 --> 00:17:40.280 a radical shift. And so I would say that is 289 00:17:40.280 --> 00:17:44.000 absolutely true. And Genesis 1 and 2 communicates 290 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.650 that truth so beautifully. And so I think it's every bit as 291 00:17:47.650 --> 00:17:50.730 true. And I mean, I guess I would argue kind of tongue in cheek. I 292 00:17:50.730 --> 00:17:54.450 think it's More true than, like, a biblical literalist trying to tell the age 293 00:17:54.450 --> 00:17:58.090 of the earth, because that's not what Genesis 1 and 2 is trying to 294 00:17:58.090 --> 00:18:01.890 do. And the last point I'll make on that is, if you don't 295 00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:05.450 believe me when I say stories are not an inferior way of communicating 296 00:18:05.450 --> 00:18:09.130 truth, then you're going to have a lot of trouble with Jesus's teaching style, because 297 00:18:09.130 --> 00:18:12.450 Jesus taught almost exclusively in parables 298 00:18:12.930 --> 00:18:16.330 that were not, quote, unquote, literally true, but were 299 00:18:16.330 --> 00:18:20.070 absolutely true, teaching us about who God is and who 300 00:18:20.070 --> 00:18:23.910 we are and how we can interact. Okay, well, 301 00:18:23.910 --> 00:18:27.710 you've noted that literalism is maybe one of the. One 302 00:18:27.710 --> 00:18:31.390 of four lenses that we traditionally kind of look 303 00:18:31.390 --> 00:18:35.150 through the Bible which are harmful. And then you propose, well, why don't 304 00:18:35.150 --> 00:18:38.950 you try these four lenses instead? Can you talk to us 305 00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:42.790 about a couple of the healthier lenses through which we might begin 306 00:18:42.790 --> 00:18:46.520 to read the Bible? Absolutely. And so, yeah, the. The first half of the book 307 00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:50.360 is really set up to try to help us identify and discard these 308 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.280 harmful lenses. And I talk a lot about all four of them, give 309 00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:58.000 some biblical examples, but I really didn't want to leave it there, Ryan. You know, 310 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.840 I didn't want to just say, here's all the. Here's all the terrible ways. 311 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:05.200 The whole point is really to help us find these better ways to read the 312 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.960 Bible. And that's like to give myself away here. That's because I 313 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.480 love the Bible and I love the church, and I 314 00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:16.160 am so grateful for my faith in Jesus and my faith community 315 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:19.920 here in Austin and being a part of greater faith 316 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:23.520 movements like the United Methodist Church and others. And so I believe 317 00:19:23.520 --> 00:19:27.280 in this stuff. And so my hope is to help people who are still looking 318 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:31.000 to engage with this, but just need to do it in healthier ways, find a 319 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.520 way to do that. And so the whole second half of the book are these 320 00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:37.200 healthier lenses. And I'll just kind of pick out what is my 321 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.660 favorite one. It's like children, though. I don't think you're supposed to say that you 322 00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:44.140 have a favorite one. Oh, the other three are throwing up their hands. 323 00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:48.220 Yeah, exactly. They're mad. They're mad about it. So the one that I 324 00:19:48.380 --> 00:19:52.140 want to talk about today is fruitfulness. And fruitfulness is really 325 00:19:52.940 --> 00:19:56.580 prioritizing interpretations that lead to what 326 00:19:56.580 --> 00:20:00.380 Jesus calls good fruit. Jesus has this famous line where he 327 00:20:00.380 --> 00:20:03.940 says, you will know my followers by the fruit that they 328 00:20:03.940 --> 00:20:07.660 produce. And, you know, some trees bear bad fruit, some trees bear good 329 00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:11.380 fruit. We know if a tree is good or bad by the Fruit it 330 00:20:11.380 --> 00:20:15.220 produces. Same with my followers. And so. And then, you know, 331 00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:18.820 Paul kind of expounds on that in Galatians and says the fruit of 332 00:20:18.820 --> 00:20:22.340 Jesus's spirit that he was talking about are love, joy, 333 00:20:22.340 --> 00:20:25.980 peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. 334 00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:30.060 And so we should be assessing our Bible 335 00:20:30.060 --> 00:20:33.740 interpretations through the lens of the fruit that it's producing. 336 00:20:34.300 --> 00:20:38.010 So is this particular interpretation leading to more love, joy, 337 00:20:38.010 --> 00:20:41.010 peace, patience, kindness, et cetera, in me and in the world? 338 00:20:41.650 --> 00:20:44.450 And if not, then I would say the spirit of God is not in that 339 00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:48.250 interpretation. And so we at least need to revisit it. We need to re. Engage 340 00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:51.410 it. We need to find ways to read the Bible that lead to 341 00:20:51.570 --> 00:20:55.330 healthier fruit. Because the truth is, Ryan, like a lot of 342 00:20:55.330 --> 00:20:59.050 our Bible interpretations, especially through the weaponization of 343 00:20:59.050 --> 00:21:02.890 Scripture, it doesn't lead to love, it leads to hate. It 344 00:21:02.890 --> 00:21:06.610 hasn't led to joy, it's led to sorrow. Right. It hasn't led to peace. 345 00:21:06.610 --> 00:21:10.430 It's led to violence, it hasn't led to kindness, it's led to. To cruelty. And 346 00:21:10.430 --> 00:21:14.150 that, at the very least, like I said, should make us kind of open 347 00:21:14.150 --> 00:21:17.990 our eyes and say, something's not right here. Because Jesus said 348 00:21:17.990 --> 00:21:21.470 we should be known by good fruit. And this is not producing good fruit. 349 00:21:21.630 --> 00:21:25.470 And this really is a pastoral thing, too. I mean, it transcends Bible 350 00:21:25.470 --> 00:21:29.190 interpretation. We talk all the time at Restore about how it shouldn't just 351 00:21:29.190 --> 00:21:32.910 be our Bible interpretation, it should be our. All of our beliefs and behaviors 352 00:21:32.910 --> 00:21:36.640 should be yielding more of this good fruit. And if 353 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:40.280 it's not, then there's a problem. Well, you brought up 354 00:21:40.280 --> 00:21:43.320 Restore Austin, your church. The narrative around 355 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:47.280 Christianity, at least in our American culture, is that it's 356 00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:50.840 shrinking. Right. And so that the fruit is not, 357 00:21:51.159 --> 00:21:54.760 in essence, producing numbers. And yet I get the impression that, 358 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.600 well, Restore Austin is a church start. I 359 00:21:58.840 --> 00:22:02.520 feel like it's a church that is growing, so to speak. Maybe not 360 00:22:02.520 --> 00:22:05.960 numbers wise, but in. In depth. Maybe this is a chance for you to brag 361 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:09.260 on the church a little, like, what are some of the fruits that you're seeing 362 00:22:09.260 --> 00:22:13.020 around Restore Austin? Gosh. Yeah, I really appreciate that question, and it's 363 00:22:13.020 --> 00:22:16.420 one of my favorite things to brag on our community, because the truth is, 364 00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:20.420 yeah, we are seeing declines in overall church 365 00:22:20.420 --> 00:22:24.220 attendance all across the United States. We've had a pretty mass 366 00:22:24.220 --> 00:22:27.860 excess over the last 25 years and especially over the last 10. 367 00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:30.900 But that's not true everywhere. Right. And 368 00:22:31.780 --> 00:22:35.380 I would just say, without making any kind of value judgments, I'll just talk about 369 00:22:35.780 --> 00:22:39.140 Restore specifically We have seen, 370 00:22:40.340 --> 00:22:44.180 you know, tremendous growth, not just in numbers, but also 371 00:22:44.180 --> 00:22:47.460 in depth and in fruit produced and all of that kind of stuff. 372 00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:51.260 We launched 10 years ago in February. So February of 373 00:22:51.260 --> 00:22:54.100 26, we'll turn 10 years old and 374 00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:58.180 started with five of us in a living room. And 375 00:22:59.060 --> 00:23:02.860 today, you know, a typical Sunday is like 400 people 376 00:23:02.860 --> 00:23:06.440 or so. And I would say that those 377 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:09.880 people, 90% of them, have some 378 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:13.680 difficult church background. They've got some baggage. They've left church 379 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:17.400 at one time or another for one reason or another. And I think 380 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:20.919 what we've said from the very beginning is we're kind of, we're going to be 381 00:23:20.919 --> 00:23:24.640 unapologetically for those people with the goal of helping 382 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.000 restore faith in Jesus and the church through some of these 383 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.680 practices that we've been talking about. So I would say that even though 384 00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.400 millions of people have left the church in the last decade or so, significant 385 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.140 percentage of those millions, if people are open to going somewhere else, 386 00:23:39.540 --> 00:23:43.260 if there is value alignment, if 387 00:23:43.260 --> 00:23:47.100 there is stuff for their family and their kids and all 388 00:23:47.100 --> 00:23:50.780 of those kinds of things, like they, they will come back. Not all of 389 00:23:50.780 --> 00:23:54.420 them, but a lot of them will come back if they've got something that is 390 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:58.100 Jesus centered and justice focused and radically inclusive. 391 00:23:59.140 --> 00:24:02.500 That is what we're seeing. And I think that 392 00:24:03.010 --> 00:24:06.610 my hope is, my hope is that this will provide 393 00:24:07.330 --> 00:24:11.010 Restore, really can provide almost a counterweight to 394 00:24:11.330 --> 00:24:14.770 not just people leaving the church, but what a lot of the American 395 00:24:15.170 --> 00:24:18.929 church has become, especially kind of more fundamentalist versions of it 396 00:24:19.090 --> 00:24:22.810 as we see really horrific things being done in the 397 00:24:22.810 --> 00:24:26.530 name of Jesus by churches and politicians and some of the most 398 00:24:26.530 --> 00:24:30.200 powerful people in our country are, are doing these terrible 399 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:33.680 things and then slapping a Bible verse on them or slapping religious language on it 400 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.360 as justification. And we should absolutely be critiquing those things. 401 00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:40.840 But I think we also have to be demonstrating something better. 402 00:24:41.080 --> 00:24:44.599 And that's my hope for Restore and even for this book, is that it would 403 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:48.440 be something to say not just that stuff is bad, but like 404 00:24:48.520 --> 00:24:51.320 there is something else that's good and better. 405 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.700 It's natural that RESTORE has kind of become this 406 00:24:57.260 --> 00:25:01.020 community of people who may have been disenfranchised 407 00:25:01.020 --> 00:25:04.300 from, from the church for a while. Because it sounds like 408 00:25:04.540 --> 00:25:08.340 that's some of your story, Zach. Absolutely. You lead off early 409 00:25:08.340 --> 00:25:11.860 part of the book and noting that you were kicked out of youth group 410 00:25:11.860 --> 00:25:15.420 and have since had some other church related separations, 411 00:25:15.580 --> 00:25:19.020 whether from institutions or from relationships. What has 412 00:25:19.100 --> 00:25:22.280 kept you coming back to the church when it's been 413 00:25:23.150 --> 00:25:26.910 oftentimes a Place of disassociation or harm or 414 00:25:26.910 --> 00:25:30.430 pushback. Yeah, thanks for that question. I would say two things. 415 00:25:30.910 --> 00:25:34.030 The first one is that I am incredibly compelled by 416 00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:38.469 the person and work and teachings of Jesus. And that's 417 00:25:38.469 --> 00:25:40.830 true in a spiritual sense. Like, I've had 418 00:25:41.870 --> 00:25:45.630 spiritual encounters with God through the power of the Holy Spirit that I'll never 419 00:25:45.630 --> 00:25:49.430 forget, you know, that were so real and tangible. And even when I'm 420 00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:53.280 experiencing doubts or questions, I can go back to those, you 421 00:25:53.280 --> 00:25:57.080 know, things and I can remember. But also, as I'm trying to be someone who 422 00:25:57.080 --> 00:26:00.480 is a, you know, a husband and a parent 423 00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:04.600 and a pastor and just a person in the world, I think the model 424 00:26:04.600 --> 00:26:08.280 of Jesus, not just as, you know, kind of fully God, 425 00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:12.040 but also as fully human, really gives us the way that we're 426 00:26:12.040 --> 00:26:15.760 supposed to be human. And so whether that's raising my boys or 427 00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:18.640 trying to just be a good citizen, 428 00:26:19.870 --> 00:26:23.550 I think that Jesus gives us the model for that and that 429 00:26:23.550 --> 00:26:27.230 there's incredible, you know, to bring it full circle fruit that comes from 430 00:26:27.230 --> 00:26:30.870 following Jesus in kind of all these different areas of life. So that's the 431 00:26:30.870 --> 00:26:34.510 first half. The second half, though, has been, I 432 00:26:34.510 --> 00:26:38.150 think, Jesus's presence made manifest through people. I think that's why 433 00:26:38.150 --> 00:26:41.430 we're called the hands and feet of Jesus as the church. And that's what I've 434 00:26:41.430 --> 00:26:45.150 experienced in our community. I'm not just one of the pastors. 435 00:26:45.150 --> 00:26:48.740 I am a member of the community who doesn't just give, but 436 00:26:48.740 --> 00:26:52.340 also receives and is incredibly blessed by the ability to 437 00:26:52.340 --> 00:26:56.180 receive from our amazing folks. And they keep me 438 00:26:56.180 --> 00:26:59.980 going when I don't feel I can. I can keep going. Rachel Held Evans has 439 00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:03.740 this amazing quote in her final book that was published after her 440 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:07.300 death called Wholehearted Faith. And she talks about 441 00:27:07.300 --> 00:27:10.980 how when she's surrounded by this community of faith, 442 00:27:11.380 --> 00:27:15.140 that she's reminded that even when she doesn't believe, 443 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:19.680 that there are people who can believe for her, you know, and then when there 444 00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:23.600 are other people who are struggling to believe, she can believe for them. Right. 445 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:27.360 I can hope for you when you're running low on hope. 446 00:27:27.600 --> 00:27:31.400 You know, you can hope for me when I'm running low. And that, I 447 00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:35.160 think, is the power of healthy community. And 448 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:38.480 I've experienced it tremendously at Restore, and it's kept me going. 449 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:44.440 Well, I appreciate the suggestion that you made along 450 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:48.240 the way through the book about the ways in which we might engage in 451 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.800 reading the Bible. So I. I grew up in that culture 452 00:27:51.800 --> 00:27:55.240 where it was very prescriptive in saying that, 453 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:58.520 well, this is what a good Christian looks like, first of all, you wake up 454 00:27:58.520 --> 00:28:02.040 at 5am and you have no less than 30 minutes of quiet time. 455 00:28:02.120 --> 00:28:05.480 And, you know, quiet time was supposed to be that time for biblical reflection. 456 00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:09.560 You give some freedom to move away from that for those of us that 457 00:28:09.560 --> 00:28:13.380 do not savor the thought of waking up at 5 in the morning. 458 00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:16.940 So how do you suggest to the, the people who you work with at 459 00:28:16.940 --> 00:28:20.620 Restore Austin that they engage in reading the Bible or 460 00:28:20.620 --> 00:28:24.380 engage in some spiritual reflection? Yeah, I think 461 00:28:24.380 --> 00:28:27.660 that we have a tremendous amount of tools to help us do this. And I 462 00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:30.180 hope that better ways to read the Bible, the book that I wrote, is, is 463 00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:33.820 just, you know, another kind of tool in the tool belt for that. But there 464 00:28:33.820 --> 00:28:37.590 are devotionals, there are, you know, church Bible 465 00:28:37.590 --> 00:28:41.150 studies. There's all kinds of ways, I think, to engage with scripture in 466 00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:44.750 healthy ways. But I'm actually going to say something that maybe feels a little weird 467 00:28:44.830 --> 00:28:48.430 for a pastor to say, but this is what we practice at 468 00:28:48.430 --> 00:28:52.110 Restore, and that is that I'll tell people, like, if. If reading 469 00:28:52.110 --> 00:28:55.310 the Bible right now for you is, is so triggering and re 470 00:28:55.310 --> 00:28:59.110 traumatizing that like you're having panic attacks when you open it 471 00:28:59.110 --> 00:29:02.480 up. I think God's okay with you taking a break, you know, from like 472 00:29:02.950 --> 00:29:06.710 trying to have the quiet time every day, you know, from trying to 473 00:29:06.710 --> 00:29:10.390 just like white knuckle your way through this. Because I think that all of 474 00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:14.150 what we would call spiritual disciplines, you know, prayer and Bible reading 475 00:29:14.150 --> 00:29:17.910 and community and meditation, all these kinds of things, are gifts 476 00:29:17.910 --> 00:29:21.750 from God for us to better connect with God and 477 00:29:21.830 --> 00:29:25.470 with ourselves and with our community. But if, because 478 00:29:25.470 --> 00:29:28.470 we've been through a tremendous amount of trauma or something like that, 479 00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:32.370 we actually can't practice those things without 480 00:29:33.010 --> 00:29:36.690 experiencing tremendous pain, then I think that, like, 481 00:29:36.690 --> 00:29:40.530 if God really wants us to flourish and use those tools to help us connect 482 00:29:40.530 --> 00:29:44.250 with him, but they're having the opposite effect. I think it's okay to take a 483 00:29:44.250 --> 00:29:48.090 break, to reassess, to maybe go through pursuing some 484 00:29:48.090 --> 00:29:51.890 counseling, some therapy, therapeutic interventions, things like that, so 485 00:29:51.890 --> 00:29:54.850 that we can experience healing, to be able to get to a place where we 486 00:29:54.850 --> 00:29:58.220 can re engage those spiritual practices in a much healthier way. 487 00:29:59.020 --> 00:30:02.700 And I'm just curious more about Restore Austin. I mean, I love 488 00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:06.460 sharing these stories of the ways that the church kind of upsets the narrative 489 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:09.900 that's going on. And so I would love to learn. A little bit about, like, 490 00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:13.460 what's the. Future vision of Restore Church in 491 00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:16.700 Austin? Like, what's something that your community is dreaming about doing? 492 00:30:17.500 --> 00:30:21.260 Absolutely. We're right in the middle of a really exciting season right now. 493 00:30:21.260 --> 00:30:25.100 So we're 10 years old, as I said. Um, and about 494 00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:29.540 a year ago, we started a pretty kind of direct conversation 495 00:30:29.540 --> 00:30:33.260 with the United Methodist Church about what it would look like to 496 00:30:33.340 --> 00:30:36.820 join up. And we'd been non denominational for most of our 497 00:30:36.820 --> 00:30:40.300 existence. We were part of a denomination that we were kicked out of really early 498 00:30:40.300 --> 00:30:44.060 on because we practice full inclusion of LGBTQ 499 00:30:44.060 --> 00:30:47.780 folks. And so after being kicked out, we've been non denominational for a 500 00:30:47.780 --> 00:30:51.580 while. And so that conversation went really well 501 00:30:51.580 --> 00:30:55.410 and has led to just over the last couple of months, us stepping 502 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.360 into, you know, full connection with the United Methodist Church. And actually we 503 00:30:59.360 --> 00:31:02.240 are going through the process of merging with 504 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.960 151 year old Methodist congregation here in 505 00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:09.800 Austin, who has a facility. We are portable. We meet in a middle school, 506 00:31:10.040 --> 00:31:13.720 they have a facility. And so we are in the process of 507 00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.760 merging together and then also raising some money to do some 508 00:31:17.760 --> 00:31:21.280 repairs and renovation on that facility to make sure it's safe and 509 00:31:21.280 --> 00:31:24.440 effective for all of our kind of merged congregation 510 00:31:25.270 --> 00:31:28.950 for both traditional and modern worship, expressions for kids, 511 00:31:28.950 --> 00:31:32.750 ministry for the preschool that's there, all those kinds of things. And so 512 00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:35.390 that's really the season that we're going to probably be in for the next year 513 00:31:35.390 --> 00:31:39.030 or so is doing some fundraising, doing some vision casting 514 00:31:39.110 --> 00:31:42.750 and doing some repairs and renovation, and ultimately, hopefully 515 00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:46.270 probably next summer, moving in and starting kind of the second 516 00:31:46.270 --> 00:31:49.790 stretch of our ministry with putting some roots down in a city that we love 517 00:31:49.790 --> 00:31:53.190 so much and hoping and praying and moving toward 518 00:31:53.620 --> 00:31:57.100 it being a place that's used 24, seven for compassion and 519 00:31:57.100 --> 00:32:00.100 justice work and not just something we do on Sundays. 520 00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:04.340 When you're talking about compassion and justice work within the church, 521 00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:08.460 what does that look like in your congregation? We do it almost 522 00:32:08.460 --> 00:32:11.860 exclusively through partnerships with nonprofit organizations. 523 00:32:12.820 --> 00:32:16.660 We do some internal ministries, I guess, so to 524 00:32:16.660 --> 00:32:20.380 speak, but almost everything is done through. Okay. We want 525 00:32:20.380 --> 00:32:24.160 to, you know, and be supportive of our unhoused 526 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.880 neighbors. We could start an unhoused ministry, but we 527 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:30.840 don't know what we're doing. We're probably going to cause more harm than good. 528 00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:35.120 And there are incredible organizations, faith based or not, that are doing 529 00:32:35.120 --> 00:32:38.600 that work in our city. And so what would it look like to mobilize 530 00:32:39.080 --> 00:32:42.680 money and volunteers to them every single month? So that's what we do. We 531 00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.840 mobilize money and volunteers to about 11 different 532 00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:49.620 nonprofits across our city all, all year long. 533 00:32:50.020 --> 00:32:53.780 And we have an entire group that is, 534 00:32:54.340 --> 00:32:57.540 I think there's like 150 people who are a part of it who every month 535 00:32:57.540 --> 00:33:01.260 we put out. Here's the partner we're serving with. Here are the slots that we 536 00:33:01.260 --> 00:33:04.660 have and they get filled up really quickly and we go do a service project. 537 00:33:04.660 --> 00:33:08.300 And we do that at least once a month. And so that's a lot of 538 00:33:08.300 --> 00:33:11.620 what we try to do. And so the hope with the facility would actually be 539 00:33:11.620 --> 00:33:15.340 able. The hope would be that we could help house even some of those 540 00:33:15.340 --> 00:33:19.140 nonprofits, help house some of those justice things. Because right now we're 541 00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:21.680 in the middle, middle school for six hours a week. You know, we don't really 542 00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:25.360 have the opportunity to do things outside of that. Well, Zach, 543 00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:29.080 you've done your writing project, Better Ways to Read the Bible. But I know 544 00:33:29.080 --> 00:33:32.880 that you're, you're written, you're working the written word. It keeps going 545 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.720 on. Where's a good place for people to kind of latch onto what 546 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:40.480 you're doing? Absolutely. I do a lot of long form writing on Substack. 547 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:44.280 I'm Zach W. Lambert. Zach W. Lambert everywhere on all the 548 00:33:44.280 --> 00:33:47.720 socials. So you can find me on there. You can find me on Substack. And 549 00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:51.500 then the book is. Yeah. Available anywhere books are sold. And I 550 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:55.100 truly hope that it's helpful on your journey if you're going to pick one 551 00:33:55.100 --> 00:33:58.500 up. Fantastic. Zach, thanks so much for joining us. 552 00:33:58.900 --> 00:34:02.580 Cool. That's it for today's episode of Compass Finding Spirituality 553 00:34:02.580 --> 00:34:06.340 in the Everyday. A huge thank you again to Reverend Zach Lambert 554 00:34:06.340 --> 00:34:10.140 for sharing insights, stories and wisdom with us. If you want 555 00:34:10.140 --> 00:34:13.960 to dig deeper into any of the topics that we've discussed, be sure, 556 00:34:14.029 --> 00:34:16.829 sure to check out our website, umc.org 557 00:34:17.549 --> 00:34:21.069 compass there you'll find detailed episode notes plus a full 558 00:34:21.069 --> 00:34:24.829 library of past episodes to keep you inspired. We're grateful 559 00:34:24.829 --> 00:34:28.669 here on Compass for the team at United Methodist Communications. 560 00:34:28.749 --> 00:34:32.389 They of course, make this podcast possible. And of course, 561 00:34:32.389 --> 00:34:35.989 if you haven't already, please take a moment to subscribe to Compass on your favorite 562 00:34:35.989 --> 00:34:39.720 podcast platform. Your ratings and reviews help help 563 00:34:39.720 --> 00:34:43.560 others discover the stories of hope and inspiration that we 564 00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:47.360 love to share on this podcast. Thanks for journeying with us today. We'll 565 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.000 see you next time. In the meantime, peace.